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(Originally posted on: 02-17-08 05:57:33 PM)
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A fairly simple question. Should Kosovo be internationally recognized as independant and will it? What do you think of this whole mess?
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Reply 1 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 06:55:47 PM)
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I have a friend from Kosovo. He recently went back to get his wife and move back here to the USA. Apparently it takes two months for the paperwork. From what he says, Kosovo can go to hell. I can only assume he is talking about the present state of government.
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Reply 2 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:14:01 PM)
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The countries that said they weren't going to recognize it were Romania, Cyprus, and Slovakia (Spain also complained but as far as I know plans on recognizing it).

While I understand Romania, Cyprus, and Spain's opposition, all of them having breakaway regions / ethnicities to deal with, I don't understand Slovakia's, because essentially they are a former breakaway region, and so should support or at least look favorably upon this concept. Do they have secession-minded ethnic minorities? I don't think so, but I guess I'm not sure.
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Reply 3 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:23:49 PM)
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Quote:
Cyprus, Greece, Romania, Slovakia and Spain oppose recognizing Kosovo's move, at least in the short term for fear that it would become a dangerous precedent for other separatist movements.

I guess people are just afraid that areas in their own states will secede. This is typical of most countries when the independence of another comes about.

Slovakia likely has its own ethnic issues... mainly a Hungarian enclave.
This reply was last edited on 02-17-08 07:28:58 PM by Sunn O))).
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Reply 4 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:30:27 PM)
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Quoted from Sunny:
I guess people are just afraid that areas in their own states will secede. This is typical of most countries when the independence of another comes about.


I don't think you understood my question. The reason the other states oppose Kosovan independence is because they have their own problems with minorities or regions that might want to declare independence. Except, as far as I knew, Slovakia.

However, I looked at it, and it appears that Slovakia is probably worried about this influencing the attitude of their apparently substantial Hungarian minority. So there we have it.
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Reply 5 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:31:55 PM)
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I submitted my previous post before I had finished. I understood completely, you're just quick with the fingers.

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Reply 6 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:47:56 PM)
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Fuck self-determination.
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Reply 7 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 07:51:57 PM)
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ya better recognize
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Reply 8 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-17-08 08:35:36 PM)
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Quoted from Wikipedia:
Canada has not yet taken a position on Kosovo's independence, and is not expected to move rapidly on the issue.

Thataway, boys.
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Reply 9 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 01:19:08 AM)
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We should have stayed the fuck away from partitioning Serbia (well, Yugoslavia) back in the day, but after the government declares its independence, with the support of The PeopleTM, there's really nothing you can do but recognize it, if not immediately. Most of those countries planning not to recognize Kosovo's independence will gladly do it after some years.
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 10 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 02:25:10 AM)
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I wouldn't recognize it on a map, if that's what you're asking.

I guess what matters is that the serbs recognize.

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Reply 11 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 02:33:54 AM)
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would you guys find it at all difficult to view Quebec as it's own country if it got that far? would you resent their insistence and all the shit it will stir up in other provinces too.

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Reply 12 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 02:46:10 AM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
would you guys find it at all difficult to view Quebec as it's own country if it got that far? would you resent their insistence and all the shit it will stir up in other provinces too.

Canada is not Serbia/Russia. Quebec would get a very different set of signals from the international community regarding what they can expect if they declare independence. Quebec is also not a protectorate of the OTAN.
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 13 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 04:13:57 AM)
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Well, if the people want to be independant, let them be independent, we did this in southern denmark, they had opportunity to vote if they wanted to belong to germany or denmark.

I mean, is there some vital natural resource in kosovo that serbia needs to hold on to?
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Reply 14 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 05:56:00 AM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
would you guys find it at all difficult to view Quebec as it's own country if it got that far? would you resent their insistence and all the shit it will stir up in other provinces too.

Well it'd be another french country, so no, I wouldn't support it.
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Reply 15 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 08:25:55 AM)
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Quote:
I mean, is there some vital natural resource in kosovo that serbia needs to hold on to?


pride, national glory, ethnic superiority, all the important stuff associated with nationalism
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Reply 16 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 09:05:13 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quote:
I mean, is there some vital natural resource in kosovo that serbia needs to hold on to?


pride, national glory, ethnic superiority, all the important stuff associated with nationalism


Ah yes, and suppressing the untermensch is just another of the vital national resources Serbia needs!
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Reply 17 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 09:33:56 AM)
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Yes, it should be recognized. Typically my instincts are pro-integration, but in a case like Serbia and Kosovo, there is no reason to keep them together. No good can come of it. It will lead to continued tension between two very distinct ethnic communities.

Ideally, Kosovo wouldn't be independent. It would merge with Albania, gain a coast, and reap the rewards of economies of scale. That won't happen even though both Albania and Kosovo want to do so (I think).

But, in the meantime, happy birthday, Kosovo!
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Reply 18 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 12:31:24 PM)
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Why did it have to be unilateral? Serbia let Montenegro go peacefully. Granted, Kosovo is more important from a historical and emotional point of view, but still, some effort should have gone to try to make it a bilateral agreement.
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 19 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 01:56:30 PM)
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The US recognized Kosovo today:
Quoted from the Associated Press:
US Recognizes Kosovo

By LARRY MARGASAK ľ 49 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) Ś President Bush on Monday extended formal recognition to Kosovo as "an independent and sovereign state," rebuffing protests by Serbia and Russia.

Bush, who is touring several African nations, promised in a letter to the president of the new nation, Fatmir Sejdiu, that "the United states will be your partner and your friend."

"In your request to establish diplomatic relations with the United States, you expressed Kosovo's desire to attain the highest standards of democracy and freedom," Bush wrote. "I fully welcome this sentiment. In particular, I support your embrace of multi-ethnicity as a principle of good governance and your commitment to developing accountable institutions in which all citizens are equal under the law."

Serbia recalled its ambassador from Washington over the U.S. decision, and it has threatened to recall its envoys from all countries that establish diplomatic ties with Kosovo, though it said it would not sever relations.

Russia and Serbia argued Monday at a U.N. Security Council emergency session that an independent Kosovo violates the council's orders in a last-ditch attempt to stem the tide of diplomatic recognition for Europe's newest state.


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Reply 20 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 02:17:18 PM)
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While I can understand countries not wanting to recognize Kosovo because of their own independence movements, but a people shouldn't be subjugated under a government the majority of the people dislike.
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Reply 21 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-18-08 06:43:28 PM)
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I agree

I've always been of the opinion that if a majority of people in a region desire secession then they have every right to pursue it.

It's why I could never support the IRA

it's only recently that I realize there are different beliefs on this subject

(this summer my Ukrainian roommate and I had a heated debate about Chechnya)
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Reply 22 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-19-08 07:04:02 AM)
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There's more to the issue than simple pride on Serbia's part. While Albanians are a majority in Kosovo, they are by no measure an overwhelming majority. Most of the remaining population is Serb. And those Serbs are afraid of what will happen when Albanians take over, as they have some scores to settle.

That being said, I fully support anything that decreases Serbia's military potential. I sincerely hope they lose Vojvodina, too.
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Reply 23 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-19-08 07:28:53 AM)
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Quote:
There's more to the issue than simple pride on Serbia's part. While Albanians are a majority in Kosovo, they are by no measure an overwhelming majority. Most of the remaining population is Serb. And those Serbs are afraid of what will happen when Albanians take over, as they have some scores to settle.

90% is an overwhelming majority.

Other than the conflictual enclave in the north, the only Serbs really left in Kosovo are the poor and the old. Perhaps if a Republic of Kosovo respects its own constitution, there will be few problems. Those enclaves would likely remain autonomous within Kosovo.

Quote:
That being said, I fully support anything that decreases Serbia's military potential. I sincerely hope they lose Vojvodina, too.

From what I know, they're not going to lose Vojvodina, at least from the implications I have from a friend who lives there. Not only is it Serbia's richest region, but it's one that generally agrees with Serbian policy. Furthermore, the violence that occurs there is primarily non-Serbian, non-Vojvodinan towards Serbians and other naturalized citizens in Vojvodina. I think they're very much content with their autonomy within the state.
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Reply 24 of 114 (Originally posted on: 02-19-08 11:26:17 AM)
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DJ, I'm guessing since you oppose Serbian power, you're a Bosniak? Could you explain to me how Serbs and Bosniaks share power in Bosnia?

Thanks.
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