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Snook
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enlightening 6 year olds on the horrors of war

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(Originally posted on: 01-05-08 04:55:46 PM)
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I fucking hate losing what I write. Third fucking time. Help me build myself a computer. Do I have all I need? And is it any good? I can't decipher the voodoo language that is "computer hardware". I'm aiming for a $500 price tag or so (leaving ~$50 for S&H costs).

Case
CD/DVD Drive
HDD (160GB)
MoBo
Moniter (17" Widescreen)
Processor (Intel, 2.66GHz)
GFX Card (Sapphire X1950GT)
Power Supply (520W)
RAM (2GB)
Keyboard (PS/2)
OS (XP Home)

Grand total for all of this is $921, plus maybe $80 for S&H.

Note that I want to play games on it made up to 2007, mainly Oblivion.

If it would be a better idea to just buy pre-made, let me know... I'm wary of doing that though, as I don't want to deal with Vista's BS.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-05-08 10:29:10 PM by Snook.
Shadowe

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Reply 1 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 06:47:58 PM)
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Generally most people will bring their hard drive, dvd drive, monitor, and sound card from a previous computer. Assuming you can't scavenge peripherals and a hard drive you're basically stuck with a minimum $800 price tag. You can however do MUCH better than what you've pieced together for roughly the same price.

Go for a SATA dvd drive, same price but MUCH faster.
Spend $2 more on the mobo and get a vanilla p5k P35 chipset.
Spend $10 more on the processor and get an E6750 c2d.
Onboard realtek will be better than that soundcard.
Get an X1950gt for $110 from Sapphire, it's better for less.
Spend the extra for a 520hx, it's a FAR better power supply.
This ram is just as good and cheaper by $20 ($10 counting corsair's MIR)

That monitor is probably your biggest sapper of money, and the E6750 is really the best processor for the money you can get considering that anything less and you'd need to spend $50ish on a good heatsink to overclock it to get it up to par.

Pretty much everything except the mobo and power supply you can get away with buying the cheapest versions you can find from decent named companies.
Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
This reply was last edited on 01-05-08 06:54:47 PM by Shadowe.
Snook
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Reply 2 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 06:54:46 PM)
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Quote:
X1950gt

Huh?

Quote:
Onboard realtek

Is this a different sound card or is it on the MoBo? (hence "onboard") Wee for independent research!

Quote:
E6750

Is this what I have or what?
Misread it.

I'll shop around for a different moniter - I only chose the one I put up there because I was being lazy with it.

Thanks for the help; I'll update the list I made.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-05-08 07:04:09 PM by Snook.
Shadowe

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Reply 3 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 07:02:08 PM)
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The X1950GT is one of ATI-AMD's budget videocards, the one from Sapphire on newegg right now is 109.99 and it outperforms the 8600 by miles. Lets put it this way, my nvidia 6600gt from 4+ years ago is a bit stronger than the 8600gt.

Quote:
Is this a different sound card or is it on the MoBo? (hence "onboard")


Onboard always means on the motherboard. Realtek is just the name of the company that does "generic" soundchips that go onto motherboards, they're actually quite good compared to the audigy family (all the way up to the audigy 4). And before you ask: Yes, X-Fi soundcards are awesome, but they're also $50 for the cheapest (now discontinued) version and completely unnecessary for a budget computer.


Quote:
Is this what I have or what?

I'll shop around for a different moniter - I only chose the one I put up there because I was being lazy with it.

Thanks for the help; I'll update the list I made.


You listed an AMD motherboard and processor. Motherboards and processors are classified based on what socket the processor plugs into on the motherboard. AMD is currently using socket AM2, and intel is currently using socket LGA775. AMD processors have a fuckbillion little pins that go into the motherboard's socket, intel has pinless processors and made the pins really tiny and stuck them in the motherboard's socket.

AMD names their processors 5500+, 6700+ and so on based on their speed relative to each other. Intel names their processors E6750, or Q6600 and so on based on that processor's relative speed, whether it's a dualcore (E) or Quadcore (Q).

The E6750 is an intel socket 775 processor which works best on the motherboard using an intel p35 chipset. Chipsets are more complicated, but since the p35 chipset is so incredibly awesome compared to basically everything else you don't really need to bother with them.
Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
Snook
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enlightening 6 year olds on the horrors of war

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Reply 4 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 07:25:53 PM)
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Thanks, I've updated the topic post with the new hardware. I'm a little wary of getting a CRT (it might not fit on my desk) which is why there is a high-cost LCD. I don't mind CRT's, they're just bulky.

Forgot I needed a keyboard; added that. Just a cheap one. Does PS/2 fit? I have no idea where to check that.

Total price is now ~$300 more than what I want, but I feel like it's a good investment anyway.

I'm a little worried about the video card; I've never used Sapphire, does it have any compatibility issues with games?

EDIT: Is there a cheap place to get XP? I want to avoid Vista.

This seems like it'll work.

$1000... I'm wondering whether I can afford the damn thing.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-05-08 07:32:17 PM by Snook.
Nemesis
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Reply 5 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 08:00:39 PM)
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CASE/PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147030
MOBO http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130120R
PROC http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
MEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098
HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136075
OPTI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072
VIDEO http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130318

I've got an XP home license you can have for 20 bucks (paypal) And I'm definitely going to recommend splurging a bit more on the proc and video card and holding off on the monitor if you don't want to spend a grand. I would also VERY HIGHLY recommend a 22" wide. it's less than a hundred bucks more, and makes a rather large difference in games. Additionally before any of you jump on my nuts about not a big enough power supply -- I've got a 450watt running this and then some and have ran into absolutely no issues.
Snook
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Reply 6 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 08:47:42 PM)
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The setup you're proposing would run me for about $50 more (if I stuck with the same moniter and keyboard). I currently have no moniter or keyboard, so those are absolute musts. And I can always upgrade this thing at a later time. I'm content enough with a 17" (I have a 15" widescreen laptop so a 17" widescreen would be a jump up already)

If I can ditch the 520W PSU for that one included with the case you have, though, I can save myself $100, which I'd be happy about. I'm happy with a mid-range video card as well.

Last question: What's the difference between your MoBo and the one Shadowe suggests? Going with yours I can save another $60, and I don't see much besides more slots, and some minor upgrades to things like audio that I don't *really* need. That'd put the price at a much more reasonable $761.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
Shadowe

I kinda want to see that up someone's ass

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Reply 7 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 09:09:00 PM)
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His mobo is an open box. It's also a micro-atx motherboard which means it's smaller and generally of lesser quality than a fullsized ATX motherboard.

You also really do not want to ever use a case or generic power supply, they have a really good record of doing wonderful things like burning out and fusing their plugs to your motherboard. You can get away with buying the cheapest ram, videocard, and motherboard brands you can find but it's suicide to not get a trusted power supply. I had to rebuild the computer I'm on right now because two of the plugs burned their way into the motherboard.

Aside from those two issues and the fact that it's way out of your price range he has a good build, pretty much the one I'm doing.

Also widescreen is a ripoff. a 4:3 display has about 7% more display area than a widescreen of the same inch measurement. It's entirely a marketting gimmick, they can sell you less for more and use up the odd bits of panel left over after making 4:3 displays.

There's no real way for you to build the computer you want for $500 or less, you're going to have to spend at least $800 on everything since you don't have peripherals and if you're already spending around $1000 you may as well just wait another month or two and save some more money for a big quad-core rig.

If all you needed were core components and a case I'd say it was possible, but my friend and I barely managed to put together a rig for $600 and we only needed a mobo, cpu, case, graphics card, ram and power supply. And that one was using ooold athlon stuff, not really suitable for playing oblivion or better.

Right now is really not a good time to buy anyway, intel will be releasing new processors soon, nvidia will be releasing ANOTHER set of videocards soon, god knows what amd and ati are doing, and everything is still out of whack from holiday price gouging.
Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
Snook
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Reply 8 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 09:16:20 PM)
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Thanks, Shadowe. I don't really mind waiting, but my money won't be increasing over the next few months (no job + college). And I wanted $500 as something of a base; I'm still OK with anything up to where I am with the rig in the topic post. I might as well look for a somewhat cheaper moniter then. And when are all these new and spiffy things coming out? I assume they presage a price drop for everything else, which I'm happy about.

I'd like to get a new rig sometime in the next 2-3 months, if possible.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
Nemesis
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Reply 9 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 09:48:51 PM)
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Good news Shadow, word on the street is that Rosewill actually makes halfway decent supplies. There's also not too much difference between a micro and a fullsized other than another screw slot down rather than over, unless we're talking server boards. The fact that it's open box really doesn't matter when you're looking at a 1 year mfc warranty either way. Additionally widescreen makes movie watching and game playing a lot better, and you're an absolute fool if you think that's not true. I don't know about the other people here, but I can't stand full screen movies and will only buy them in widescreen, which look better on a widescreen monitor, suprise suprise. And to close up, now is as fine a time as any to buy computer parts. Ram is shit cheap, monitors are about as low as they're going to get, AMD and Intel are at each other's throats. Who gives a fuck what comes out 6 months from now, if you want to play that game why not just keep your computer forever because you'll be waiting about that long for shit to not keep getting better.

The ATI video card isn't a terrible choice, they bench pretty well, I just personally can't stand the bundled catalyst software. It's more of a personal thing, for example I don't have itunes because it comes with quick time and despite my almost need to play portal, I won't be buying the orange box because steam sucks harder than a vacuum.
Snook
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enlightening 6 year olds on the horrors of war

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Reply 10 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 10:33:58 PM)
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I think I'm gonna go for the Rosewill case with the PSU and save some money (along with $40 I'm saving through a cheaper moniter I found this means I'll save ~$120).

EDIT: How does this video card stack up vs. the Sapphire? It's somewhat cheaper and *seems* beefier, but its memory interface is 128-bit rather than 256-bit. What does that mean?

EDIT2: So this is what I have then:

CD/DVD Drive
Case/PSU
HDD
Monitor
Video Card
Keyboard
RAM
MoBo
Processor
Oblivion: GOTY

Total Cost: $790.90 + $43.19 (S&H) - $70.00 (Rebates)= $764.09

That is a cost I am happy with, actually.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-05-08 11:33:16 PM by Snook.
Nemesis
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Reply 11 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 11:43:35 PM)
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That's going to be your budget ATI card, I'd recommend going with a Geforce 8600 GT instead, they bench the same but you can score an 8600 for 79.99 with the January MIR. Obviously you're intending to upgrade the video at a later time, so this is going to be the better "get you up and running" card as it will play most games at max settings on that monitor.
Nemesis
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Reply 12 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 11:45:31 PM)
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127286Edit's not loading properly atm, sorry for double post.
Snook
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Reply 13 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-05-08 11:50:33 PM)
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And yet according to Shadowe they don't run that well? I swear this industry needs clearer standards for ranking things. I just want something cheap that will run Oblivion maxed, if the 8600 does that then I'm happy. It's not like I'm getting Crysis or something.

EDIT: Ack slow internet. It's also out of stock. How about this one? Same price, only difference I see is slightly lower speeds. Or this one?

Well I went for the second one, it seemed the best for $100 (after rebate). I haven't put in the order yet so you can convince me to go for a different one tomorrow.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-06-08 12:21:51 AM by Snook.
Nemesis
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Reply 14 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-06-08 10:09:29 AM)
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It's really up to you which to go with, it's your computer after all.I will say this though; I can back my advice up because I'm a tech (fix probably 20 machines a day, real fix, not geeksquad fix) and salesperson at a local computer company, whereas as far as I know, Shadowe just trolls the overclocker.com forums. I've played on both cards and there is really no difference until you get to the top end (8800GT/2900XT), but I can tell you the bundled software with an nvidia card is 100% less annoying.
Shadowe

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Reply 15 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-06-08 10:17:24 AM)
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Tell you what, rather than trash your thread getting into another argument with someone that doesn't know what the hell they're talking about just go to tom's hardware guide and look at their massive interactive videocard rankings.

But don't take my word for it reg an account on OCforums and ask them there, you'll get more benchmarks than you know what to do with, even for power supplies. You'll probably also get plenty of pictures of what's left of computers that used generic PSUs. Like I said before, with 400ish people (out of 76 thousand total members) online at any given time an argument that has any merit to it whatsoever will be bound to have supporters there.

Cue sarcastic and/or angry comment or rant in which nemesis attempts to prove he knows better than me.
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Snook
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Reply 16 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-06-08 11:06:56 AM)
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OK, well thanks for all the help. This is, in the end, what I'm getting:

CD/DVD Drive
Case/PSU (450W)
HDD (160GB)
Monitor (17" Widescreen)
Video Card (GeForce 8600GTS 256MB)
Keyboard
RAM (2GB)
MoBo
Processor (Intel Core 2 Duo E6750)

From the site that Shadowe brings up it seems like the best video card for the lowest cost that I can get. It all comes to $823.65 (S&H included) and I have $80 in rebates, effectively making it only $744.

I'm still a little worried about the PSU though. If I go for a separate model, however, then it'll bump the cost up to $830 which quite frankly is a price that frightens me.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
This reply was last edited on 01-06-08 11:16:01 AM by Snook.
Nemesis
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Reply 17 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-06-08 11:56:42 AM)
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First and foremost, This is running my Q6600, 8800GTS 320, 4 GB of memory, 2 DVD burners, 5 hard drives, and the 4 fans in my chassis. That's 10 more watts than the 450 you'll be getting, and you'll be running half as much shit. Second, that's what I was talking about with the "trolls the OC.com forums" Shadowe. Rosewill as I said before, actually does make halfway decent budget PSUs. It's not a Bestech, nor is it Codegen or an A-power or an Echostar. It's a decently priced mid-range power supply. It's not going to cook his board if it kicks off, that's a right generally reserved to the aformentioned brands. You're not going to convince anyone here that anyone on the OCforums is sane or intelligent. In fact, we've got a few people that frequent there and buy their shit from us and continually fuck it up sanding down the processor and cooking their memory/south bridge. In closing, there's your sarcastic and/or angry rant that you wanted, in addition, shut.the.fuck.up. and stop giving people bad advice. Not everyone needs a 4000$ rig to play games.
Snook
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Reply 18 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-06-08 12:15:45 PM)
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Quoted from Nemesis:
First and foremost, This is running my Q6600, 8800GTS 320, 4 GB of memory, 2 DVD burners, 5 hard drives, and the 4 fans in my chassis. That's 10 more watts than the 450 you'll be getting, and you'll be running half as much shit.


Thanks for the clear answer. I'm happy with the cost of this thing; if I had had a monitor/keyboard it'd be much less but so be it.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
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Reply 19 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-15-08 11:16:56 AM)
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I'm not sure if you've gotten your machine or not but here is what I was able to custom build with my supplier for about $1013 (my cost) and S&H to CO would be around $60.

Case: Silver Tower PC Chassis
Power Supply: 585 Watt Orion Power Supply
Motherboard: Biostar P4M900 Micro 775 Socket 775 DDR2
CPU: Core 2 Duo E4400 2.0GHz 2Mb (775)
CPU Cooling: Retail Copper Core Heatsink (Active)
Memory: 2 x DDR2/667 1024MB
Video Card: nVidia GeForce 8400GS 256Mb PCI-E Video Card
Hard Drive 1: SATA II 160Gb 7200RPM 8MB
Hard Drive 2: None
Optical Drive 1: DVDRW 20X Lightscribe (Black)
Optical Drive 2: None
Network Card: Onboard NIC (10/100)
Removeable Media: All-In-1Card Reader/Writer w/USB
Keyboard: Microsoft/Logitech PS/2 Internet KB (Black)
Mouse: Microsoft/Logitech w/Wheel Optical Mouse (Black)
Monitor: Acer 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor
Software: None
Operating System: Microsoft WindowsXP Pro
Warranty: 1 YEAR PARTS & LABOR DESKTOP DEPOT WARRANTY
Snook
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Reply 20 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-15-08 10:56:49 PM)
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Well I got it but I've been having problems. I put it together, fire it up, and... nothing. No lights, no sound, nothing but a slight burning smell... Oops.

I've spoken with many people about it and all have come to the same conclusion: bunk PSU. Go figure.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
Shadowe

I kinda want to see that up someone's ass

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Reply 21 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-16-08 05:43:26 PM)
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And yet according to nemesis I need to shut the fuck up and stop giving people bad advice. The real tragedy is that your mobo was an open box which means you get absolutely no support from anyone and since it's been more than 15 days since you bought it you can't get a refund.

There's a number of options but they pretty much all rely on you doing something underhanded one way or another. I think your best bet outside of mooching newegg over the phone is to try calling MSI and getting support from them, ofc if they ask for any sort of proof of purchase you're screwed.

Oh and for the love of god this time get a real power supply. You don't need an expensive one, a ~40 dollar fortron is a really good psu, one of their more expensive (~80 dollarish) runs my 8800GT and Prescott just fine. If you aren't overclocking it will work for you safely until you can get a better one at your next upgrade.

[edit]

Here 10 dollars after rebate, it's a decent cooler master, and it's got good output.
Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
This reply was last edited on 01-16-08 05:50:35 PM by Shadowe.
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Reply 22 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-16-08 05:59:27 PM)
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corsair psus are the best psus
Shadowe

I kinda want to see that up someone's ass

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Reply 23 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-16-08 08:21:29 PM)
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But antpocas, nemesis says we should shut the fuck up and stop giving people bad advice >P
Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
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enlightening 6 year olds on the horrors of war

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Reply 24 of 42 (Originally posted on: 01-16-08 09:25:03 PM)
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So we took a further look, and apparently I suck at building computers because I shorted the mobo by forgetting spacers... Shit.

NEW MOBO TIME YAY

Let's hope nothing else got fried; it all *looks* OK.
Hello my name is Kristoffer Jørgensen and I am from Norweigen I come to see hot USA girls and history landmarks!!
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