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Snowy
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(Originally posted on: 10-17-07 02:02:20 AM)
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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/11/1191696075903.html?page=fullpage



Did a horrific and dodgy act of terror with all the hallmarks of a professional demolition job result in the need for this kind of shit deployed to take pictures and sound from lawful protests against the government? Apparently so!

VANESSA ALARCON saw them at an antiwar rally in Lafayette Square in Washington last month.

"I heard someone say: 'Oh my god, look at those'," the university student recalled. "I look up and I'm like, 'What the hell is that?' They looked kind of like dragonflies or little helicopters. But those are not insects."

Bernard Crane saw them, too. "I'd never seen anything like it in my life," the Washington lawyer said. "I thought: 'Is that mechanical, or is that alive?' "

That is just one of the questions hovering over a handful of similar sightings at political events in Washington and New York.


There is no room for privacy in a world filled with fear over the possibility of violent death at the hands of angry foreigners. Or do they just want to keep an eye on and begin to control how ordinary people behave when they dont agree with the government?

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul
Ma-Newer
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Reply 1 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 04:48:19 AM)
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Ron Paul will put an end to this.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.





Science Brad
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Reply 2 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 07:51:29 AM)
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That's cool if it is true. Insect like flight is no small feat. It might be that it was undergoing a test run before being used for more serious matters overseas. I seriously doubt that these dragonfly things will pose a risk to large rallies due to the fact it is pretty easy to just monitor such things freely here already.
"We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." -Carl Sagan
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Reply 3 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 12:33:34 PM)
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Yeah, like Brad said, if they are real secret government spy tools they were probably just being tested. I'm pretty sure no one stands to learn anything from the chit chat that goes on in those rallies.
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Reply 4 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 02:57:26 PM)
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what if real insects are Gods machines to spy on us?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.





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Reply 5 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 03:04:58 PM)
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I have a weird theory that says cats record everything we do and can see through walls and from miles away.
"A man chooses, a slave obeys."
Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 6 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 10:09:32 PM)
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...and the yanks dont really give a fuck, or dont think they''ll be used to spy on people. brilliant.

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul
Science Brad
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Reply 7 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 10:46:31 PM)
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Who said they wouldn't be used to spy on people? I thought that was implied in what I said about it being tested here before being used over seas. Of course we're spied on, but there's no real need to use these for spying on us at home as we can just attend such rallies or record them freely. And if it is some secret meeting then well make sure bugs can't get in.
"We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." -Carl Sagan
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Reply 8 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-17-07 11:55:29 PM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
...and the yanks dont really give a fuck, or dont think they''ll be used to spy on people. brilliant.


And of course you assumed this. My point was that you've gotten yourself all worked up over the wrong thing. If you wanna be worried about the dangerous possibilities that this technology can lead to, go for it. But don't seriously tell me you think that these bugs are hovering over protest rallies collecting any real spy info. No one has any good reason to spy on anti-war rallies or whatever, if you want I can pretty much sum up every conversation thats going on in them anyway. No useful information for the government is going to be gathered from them - and if they wanted to spy on them, there would be a thousand easier, better, more productive, less obvious, less controversy provoking methods. The only reason they would use cyborg bugs on a rally would be to test it. If you're worried about what that technology will lead to, go worry about it, don't expect me to join you in worrying about them spying on rallies.

The news has been out there that the governments been working on this type of technology for a while. No, I don't like the idea that the government has secret bugs spying on civilians, but I think its obvious enough that they don't have any actual interest in spying on the people who claim they've been spied on so far. Yeah, it can lead to terrible things, worry about the big picture, not the harmless little one. When the first test atom-bomb was detonated, we were worried about what doors that was opening up, we weren't worried about the explosion itself.

This is to go along with what Brad said.
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Reply 9 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-18-07 04:11:29 AM)
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If people spied on me and recorded everything I did I'd feel like a movie star so I see no problem with this.
"A man chooses, a slave obeys."
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Reply 10 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-18-07 04:23:05 PM)
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This is an OUTRAGE!!!!! I knew I should have copyrighted that idea when i was a perverted little kid and wished i had a mechanical fly that could fly around town and into the room of my crush of the week. FUCK, i missed out big!


....or maybe the government was spying on my thoughts and thats where they got it from. It just took them this long to develop it.
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Reply 11 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 02:58:13 AM)
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Haha, because the government never spied on civilians illicitly, and wouldn't do it again!

edit: oh wait, what about George's tape recordings? Oh, yeah, that was just the liberals being noisy.
Šonne onwęcneš eft wineleas guma, gesihš him biforan fealwe wegas, bažian brimfuglas, brędan fežra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Žonne beoš žy hefigran heortan benne, sare ęfter swęsne. Sorg biš geniwad žonne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfeš, greteš gliwstafum, georne geondsceawaš secga geseldan; swimmaš oft on weg. Fleotendra ferš no žęr fela bringeš cušra cwidegiedda.
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Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 12 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 03:30:07 AM)
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I'm not worked up at all, I do think it's sad and laughable that the consensus appears to be oh they'll test it on us but use it overseas. Or hay im sure im being spied upon already, who cares? I'm glad you trust your government so much to do the right thing with it's domestic ''testing'' and eagerly await more stellar results from your intelligence agencies forays into spying on foreign people. It sure is dinky nanotechnology and it couldnt be in the hands of a more trustworthy and valiant group of people.

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul
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Reply 13 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 04:38:18 AM)
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Quoted from nandaron:
I have a weird theory that says cats record everything we do and can see through walls and from miles away.


man that is a pretty weird theory
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Reply 14 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 06:05:36 AM)
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How come you only make posts about when the US spies on its citizens, and nothing about the far more sophisticated British spy camera network?

Besides, it's not even really spying if it's in a public place. Everyone's allowed to take pictures in public, even the government.
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Reply 15 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 06:59:33 AM)
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Quoted from ice:
How come you only make posts about when the US spies on its citizens, and nothing about the far more sophisticated British spy camera network?

Besides, it's not even really spying if it's in a public place. Everyone's allowed to take pictures in public, even the government.


So if a black car follows you around all day taking pictures of you and monitoring all of your movements, it still isn't "spying"?
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Reply 16 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 10:19:55 AM)
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That doesn't make you a spy, merely a paparazzi.
Šonne onwęcneš eft wineleas guma, gesihš him biforan fealwe wegas, bažian brimfuglas, brędan fežra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Žonne beoš žy hefigran heortan benne, sare ęfter swęsne. Sorg biš geniwad žonne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfeš, greteš gliwstafum, georne geondsceawaš secga geseldan; swimmaš oft on weg. Fleotendra ferš no žęr fela bringeš cušra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 17 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-19-07 12:18:54 PM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
I'm not worked up at all, I do think it's sad and laughable that the consensus appears to be oh they'll test it on us but use it overseas. Or hay im sure im being spied upon already, who cares? I'm glad you trust your government so much to do the right thing with it's domestic ''testing'' and eagerly await more stellar results from your intelligence agencies forays into spying on foreign people. It sure is dinky nanotechnology and it couldnt be in the hands of a more trustworthy and valiant group of people.

I didn't say any of that. Thanks for trying.
Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 18 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-20-07 07:32:25 AM)
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Quoted from Dimitrios:
Quoted from Snowy:
I'm not worked up at all, I do think it's sad and laughable that the consensus appears to be oh they'll test it on us but use it overseas. Or hay im sure im being spied upon already, who cares? I'm glad you trust your government so much to do the right thing with it's domestic ''testing'' and eagerly await more stellar results from your intelligence agencies forays into spying on foreign people. It sure is dinky nanotechnology and it couldnt be in the hands of a more trustworthy and valiant group of people.


I didn't say any of that. Thanks for trying.



You're right..I said it, not you. Dont be so egotistical and take my response so personally. I wasnt just covering points you tried to make, I was speaking to the others as well. You arent the only one on this thread. But let's dwell on you for a moment, shall we?

Dimi, your response postures towards knowing what purpose they spy on rallies better than me -- do remember and admit you possess no special knowledge of their motivation, so you merely postulate based on your own personal prejudices, which is all I can do as well, really. Any information I have gleaned as to why they do it is obviously tainted by suspicion. Yours is tainted too. We deal in subjectives here, you'd be wise to admit that when you seek to label me a worked up fool.

'' but I think its obvious enough that they don't have any actual interest in spying on the people who claim they've been spied on so far.'' ''But don't seriously tell me you think that these bugs are hovering over protest rallies collecting any real spy info. No one has any good reason to spy on anti-war rallies or whatever, if you want I can pretty much sum up every conversation thats going on in them anyway. ''

How casually arrogant you are. Do you know what a biometric database is? Passively filming rallies and adding people to a dissident ''troublemaker'' list without their knowledge is the likely purpose of such filming since police have been caught directly recording the faces of peaceful demonstrators for years in the states. When asked what they are doing they refuse to respond. But I dont say that is EXACTLY what they are doing, I am not so up myself, as we say down here. But it's nice to know your personal opinion, Dimi.

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul
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Reply 19 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 04:19:49 AM)
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I am just amazed every time I read one of your threads and I realize again that your level of political awareness isn't really any more developed than a that of a 16 year old who just started listening to punk rock.
Snowy
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Reply 20 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 09:28:44 AM)
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Quoted from ice:
I am just amazed every time I read one of your threads and I realize again that your level of political awareness isn't really any more developed than a that of a 16 year old who just started listening to punk rock.



Some helpful information:

Just one piece of proof that the federal government censors dissent. http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html

When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, “The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us.” The local police, at the Secret Service’s behest, set up a “designated free-speech zone” on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush’s speech. The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, though folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president’s path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct; the police also confiscated his sign. Neel later commented, “As far as I’m concerned, the whole country is a free speech zone. If the Bush administration has its way, anyone who criticizes them will be out of sight and out of mind.”

At Neel’s trial, police detective John Ianachione testified that the Secret Service told local police to confine “people that were there making a statement pretty much against the president and his views” in a so-called free speech area....[/w]

Federal violence and overkill against lawful protest: http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/128527/index.php

http://onemansblog.com/2007/06/01/caught-on-film-police-misconduct-and-brutality/

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/17869

and dont expect me to respect any cries of 'that's not cnn!'...

http://www.chicagomediawatch.org/02_4_policestate.html

filming protestors for various reasons, look it happens in your excitingly ctv'd england too! dont worry im aware it's not just your federal government that is apparently scared of those active enough to get out in the street and physically protest govt. policy:

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17145
http://archive.theargus.co.uk/2006/8/23/214371.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0614,murphy,72733,5.html

[w]That's why the latest NYPD policy on videotaping protests allows the cops to film not just when they suspect terrorist or criminal activity but also whenever "such accurate documentation is deemed potentially beneficial or useful." You see, since terrorists could attack or attend any protest, the cops must be able to film every one. And just to make sure they don't miss anything, the NYPD policy says the cops must keep those videos for a year, after which officers "may" destroy the tapes—although there's nothing saying they have to.


It goes on and on and I dont give a shit enough about you to continue, but jeesh...please feel free to counter all the evidence that it appears protests in america and indeed, in a growing number of western nations appear to be taken as a threat by the state. the protesters are filmed, zeroing in on the faces, now why would they do that.

The fact that young people today TRUST their government to NOT be up to no good astounds me.

It was proven FACT the federal government of the united states of america lied about having clear evidence of nuclear weapons in Iraq to get a war that's killing hundreds of thousands of people and yet apparently im naive because I merely suggest that the filming of peaceful protests seems a strange activity in a free society and the assumption that all protests could harbor terrorists laughable scaremongering.

In the face of the deliberate murder of all these people, which is what an unjust war is, it's murder, I'm the naive one for not trusting the motives in openly and secretly filming peaceful protest against that government?

Your head is in the sand and mine is in conspiracy territory sure, but goddamn I know you're wrong to not be concerned about this and I hope im wrong about the direction it indicates all our ''free'' societies are headed.

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul

This reply was last edited on 10-21-07 09:35:27 AM by Snowy.
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Reply 21 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 11:23:57 AM)
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Quote:
please feel free to counter all the evidence that it appears protests in america and indeed, in a growing number of western nations appear to be taken as a threat by the state. the protesters are filmed, zeroing in on the faces, now why would they do that.


How is this different from any other time in history? Obviously protests are seen as potential threats, seriously, do you need four sources to point that out? There's never been a time when people protesting against the status quo were not at least viewed with suspicion by those who enforce the status quo, to say nothing about being forcibly silenced like in Burma or whatever.

Quote:
The fact that young people today TRUST their government to NOT be up to no good astounds me.


Again, just because I think it's stupid that you're so outraged about this doesn't mean I trust the government, so don't tell me it does.

Quote:
It was proven FACT the federal government of the united states of america lied about having clear evidence of nuclear weapons in Iraq to get a war that's killing hundreds of thousands of people and yet apparently im naive because I merely suggest that the filming of peaceful protests seems a strange activity in a free society and the assumption that all protests could harbor terrorists laughable scaremongering.


the lack of Iraqi WMDs has nothing to do with this, at all. But thanks for bringing it up!
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Reply 22 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 01:31:25 PM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
Quoted from Dimitrios:
Quoted from Snowy:
I'm not worked up at all, I do think it's sad and laughable that the consensus appears to be oh they'll test it on us but use it overseas. Or hay im sure im being spied upon already, who cares? I'm glad you trust your government so much to do the right thing with it's domestic ''testing'' and eagerly await more stellar results from your intelligence agencies forays into spying on foreign people. It sure is dinky nanotechnology and it couldnt be in the hands of a more trustworthy and valiant group of people.


I didn't say any of that. Thanks for trying.



You're right..I said it, not you. Dont be so egotistical and take my response so personally. I wasnt just covering points you tried to make, I was speaking to the others as well. You arent the only one on this thread. But let's dwell on you for a moment, shall we?

You're right, how silly of me to think you were talking to me, considering the first thing you said was in direct response to something I said. But not only did I not say any of that stuff, but no one else did either.

Quote:
Dimi, your response postures towards knowing what purpose they spy on rallies better than me -- do remember and admit you possess no special knowledge of their motivation, so you merely postulate based on your own personal prejudices, which is all I can do as well, really. Any information I have gleaned as to why they do it is obviously tainted by suspicion. Yours is tainted too. We deal in subjectives here, you'd be wise to admit that when you seek to label me a worked up fool.

'' but I think its obvious enough that they don't have any actual interest in spying on the people who claim they've been spied on so far.'' ''But don't seriously tell me you think that these bugs are hovering over protest rallies collecting any real spy info. No one has any good reason to spy on anti-war rallies or whatever, if you want I can pretty much sum up every conversation thats going on in them anyway. ''

How casually arrogant you are. Do you know what a biometric database is? Passively filming rallies and adding people to a dissident ''troublemaker'' list without their knowledge is the likely purpose of such filming since police have been caught directly recording the faces of peaceful demonstrators for years in the states. When asked what they are doing they refuse to respond. But I dont say that is EXACTLY what they are doing, I am not so up myself, as we say down here. But it's nice to know your personal opinion, Dimi.

Okay, fine, lets say for a moment that they are collecting information on the rally-folk for their biometric databases. And we know this because they've been doing this for many many years since police officers have been directly recording faces of peaceful demonstrators. Deal. So why all the ruckus now? Instead of reliable police officers walking around with cameras, mounted hidden camera's and microphones around the protest site, secret government moles who are pretending to be part of the rally who are just there to gather information, we've now got fake bugs doing this job. Bugs which have proven to be obvious enough to be noticed all around DC, bugs which can easily be lost or destroyed, bugs which probably don't gather information nearly as well as all those other things.

I didn't like it before that they were spying, no sir, but now they've got fake bugs.
Snowy
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Reply 23 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 01:38:01 PM)
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Quoted from ice:
please feel free to counter all the evidence that it appears protests in america and indeed, in a growing number of western nations appear to be taken as a threat by the state. the protesters are filmed, zeroing in on the faces, now why would they do that.



It has everything to do about the moral character of the people in charge of your country, ice. Why is it stupid for me to have feeling about these issues as well as thinking about them and discussing them here? I'm outraged, but not unthinking, not -so- outraged it renders me insensible. Why does that mean im stupid?

Dimi, Brad suggested that the domestic spying was mere training and that it would focus overseas. You agreed with what Brad had to say in your initial response to this thread. You never really understand what I have to say, but others do..so stop trying to blanket my words with generic 'that dont make sense, nobody said that' clauses because it doesnt stick.


And you know, I posted this article here mostly for the interesting new aspect of having flying bug spies in the skiezzzz above DC, etc and to being a new topic to INTL. It's a news item and my personal disgust that governments need to spy on peaceful rallies was very briefly touched upon until you decided to take such a personal affront to what I had to say. And once again, you assume you know that these nano-bugs are not as good as other means of spying as if you know best. Stop basing your arrogant need to quash everything I have to say on your own assumptions.

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul

This reply was last edited on 10-21-07 01:44:59 PM by Snowy.
D
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i didn't have the strength to get it all the way off

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Reply 24 of 89 (Originally posted on: 10-21-07 05:30:05 PM)
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Perhaps no one would feel the need to get defensive and arrogant in their arguments if yours weren't so arrogant and offensive to begin with.

Quote:
...and the yanks dont really give a fuck, or dont think they''ll be used to spy on people. brilliant.

How humble.

Quote:
I posted this article here mostly for the interesting new aspect of having flying bug spies in the skiezzzz above DC, etc and to being a new topic to INTL.

Really? The aura I got was more "look at your disgusting evil government and what they're doing now! How could you stupid Americans allow this to happen." After some people expressed their disinterest in the topic, you're response was to the tune of "you're all dumb!!"

Yes, I was being arrogant, but only in response to your own arrogance.
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