Double-talk, Propaganda, and the Media; Why what you say is less important than what someone else says for you!



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atlas sighed (at me)
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In our modern age of political correctness and presenting one's anus to any "protected minority" in the Western world, it is always likened to a nuclear bomb exploding whenever someone has the chance to espouse opinions contrary to that on a recognized medium. This nuclear bomb was President Ahmadinejad's speech monday night to the hooping and hollering rabble at Columbia University. Now, we all (I'm assuming none of us live in 3rd world countries like Portugal or Nigeria) already have a pretty good bias against the Iranian President by virtue of the fact that we live in the West, but really, did we, as in the pejorative, have to stuff words in his mouth to make a political point?

Last monday, if you didn't hear, Ahmadenijad, according to both FOX and CNN, reportedly "denied the existence of homosexuals in Iran" and drummed up the shit-storm that followed that statement and many others. Far be it from me to criticize the talking heads of the media, but did Ahmadenijad really deny the existence of homosexuals in his country, or did they make up that line for him?

From the first link to FOX, you can clearly read the translation of what the Iranian leader said as follows: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country,". Taken at its basic appearance, yes, this seems to follow their line of logic, but look at it again with emphasis this time: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country,".

Hidden in open view, there is a subtle distinction from what media outlets are currently blasting. The Iranian leader made a distinction between Western homosexuals who parade around in the streets, actively lobby for legislation giving them ceremonial "marriages", and even mock religious symbols and ideals. Whereas in Iran, homosexuals do not advertise their sexuality in open public and are in fact reppressed by the regime in accordance with the Revolutionary Islamic Gaurd statutes. But yet is this given the light of day?

No. It is not the job of the media to report what is actually said, it is their job to provide what people in the society want to hear. People expected him to say evil things, things that are contrary to what we have been brainwashed to expect to see in public. Things like "I think gays are great people!" or some other script taken straight from the Holocaust Museum in Los Angeles. This bullshit, along with the obvious attempts at propagandizing and discrediting Ahmadenijad, are far, far more disgusting than anything he actually said himself. Further, I think that this media system we have here is little different than all of the "unfair and biased" "state-approved" outlets we are so quick to scoff at in Iran.

What do you think? Did the media machine in this country unfairly depict and judge this man to brainwash the American public against him, or did depict him in a most "fair and unbiased" way?

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You may be 100% right, but really theres no way we can know what he really meant unless we have someone who speaks Persian. It's possible he did mean what the media interpreted him to mean, and it's possible he meant what you say. Theres no great value in analyzing a sentence literally when it was translated from another language.

Translators don't usually write things word for word, and they wouldn't really be able to with most languages. They usually construct the sentences to make the most sense. It all depends on what the translator was thinking when he wrote that down. Which means we either have to ask that translator, ask someone else who speaks the language, or we could ask President Ahmadinejad himself I guess.

If you're right about what he really meant, then yes, this is a good example of what you're talking about. It's really frustrating and interesting when you get the same story from many different sources - you see the things some sources left out, or said differently, in order to get a different point across.

This reply was last edited on 09-26-07 09:35:07 AM by D.

Pertti Susilainen
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What Dimi said. By the way, do you speak Farsi, vissario?

EDIT: Wait, was the original quote in English or in Farsi?

Ðonne onwæcneð eft wineleas guma, gesihð him biforan fealwe wegas, baþian brimfuglas, brædan feþra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Þonne beoð þy hefigran heortan benne, sare æfter swæsne. Sorg bið geniwad þonne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfeð, greteð gliwstafum, georne geondsceawað secga geseldan; swimmað oft on weg. Fleotendra ferð no þær fela bringeð cuðra cwidegiedda.
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This reply was last edited on 09-26-07 09:58:24 AM by Pertti Susilainen.

Snowy
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I havent read the transcript yet since im busy with work and too tired but i'd seen a few blogs run by flamboyantly gay folk raging about what the president said. as much as i agree with you about media bias and how it was taken in the wrong context...TO A DEGREE....Iran routinely executes (horribly, tho is there a nice way?)homosexuals so I dont have too much sympathy for their point of view.

So what is the key point, media bias furthering the political agendas of the west, or the state murder of homosexuals in iran? both issues intertwine for me, both are harmful to us as a species...that we could allow it to happen and that we could want it to happen disgusts me. what is the greater crime, to muffle the truth and seek revolution for financial gain or to honestly murder because your god apparently ordains it?

cunning and ignorant, the west and the middle east, surely the hierarchy that motivates the political arm of islam in the middle east and iran especially knows at some level that religion is a way of controlling the sheeple, so they do injustice just the same as the journalists who whore themselves to new babylon.

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I thought that the way that people laughed at him when he said that was in very poor taste from supposedly "educated" people. Even if he did mean that there were no homosexuals in Iran, and it's because of societal/governmental repression and execution.. That's no laughing matter.

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atlas sighed (at me)
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Quote:
You may be 100% right, but really theres no way we can know what he really meant unless we have someone who speaks Persian.

Then why has the Western media portrayed it as if they are 100% sure?

atlas sighed (at me)
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Quote:
You may be 100% right, but really theres no way we can know what he really meant unless we have someone who speaks Persian.

Then why has the Western media portrayed it as if they are 100% sure?

edit:

Quote:
Wait, was the original quote in English or in Farsi?

That was the translation provided seconds after he spoke to the students.

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Quoted from vissario:
Quote:
You may be 100% right, but really theres no way we can know what he really meant unless we have someone who speaks Persian.

Then why has the Western media portrayed it as if they are 100% sure?

Didn't I already say I agree'd with your point about the media?

Besides, for all we know, they are 100% sure. However we know that you're not.

You have a valid point about the media, but it would help your argument if you used an example you could prove.

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Quoted from vissario:
That was the translation provided seconds after he spoke to the students.

So you're basing your point on an amiguity in the translation? The interpreter (not a translator) could have worded it in a different way. You'll have to look into the Farsi original.

emtilt

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I watched a video of the debate/talk and the way the translator (the one translating for the students) inflected that sentence certainly seemed to imply the interpretation that is being widely reported, though we're still at the mercy of the translator there. While your point about the media is valid, your example is horrid.

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If I were a journalist, I think I'd do a story about this.

I might call it "Say what?" and I'd have several Farsi experts translate things into English. It'd be interesting to see what might happen.

Of course, we won't know. Vissario is right that we can't trust the press in this instance, because we don't have a second opinion.

Not that we'd get a second opinion from corporate media anyway...

If Nizamuddin, who spoke Arabic and Farsi, was still here, I'd ask him. Do any of you go to colleges or live near colleges with a professor that speaks farsi? I'd be interested in hearing one of their takes on the situation.

Because his statement could mean a number of things. He could be saying, "No, we don't have homosexuals here," or "Homosexuals here are in some way different from homosexuals in the U.S." Which one do you think it is?

I agree with snowqueene that either way, his actions and statements still make me sick.

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Ahmadinejad is a great and wise leader. Those who feel he is misguided are themselves misguided, and are ignorant of Iran as well as Islam. I have only this quote to provide those who slander him and his views:

Quote:
Surat An-Nisa 4:16: If two men among you commit a lewd act, punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.

Quote:
I havent read the transcript yet since im busy with work and too tired but i'd seen a few blogs run by flamboyantly gay folk raging about what the president said. as much as i agree with you about media bias and how it was taken in the wrong context...TO A DEGREE....Iran routinely executes (horribly, tho is there a nice way?)homosexuals so I dont have too much sympathy for their point of view.

So what is the key point, media bias furthering the political agendas of the west, or the state murder of homosexuals in iran? both issues intertwine for me, both are harmful to us as a species...that we could allow it to happen and that we could want it to happen disgusts me. what is the greater crime, to muffle the truth and seek revolution for financial gain or to honestly murder because your god apparently ordains it?

cunning and ignorant, the west and the middle east, surely the hierarchy that motivates the political arm of islam in the middle east and iran especially knows at some level that religion is a way of controlling the sheeple, so they do injustice just the same as the journalists who whore themselves to new babylon.

What proof do you have that the Republic Iran executes homosexuals based on that fact alone? No where in the Koran does it sanction the unjust murder of homosexuals, or anyone for that matter. It makes a very clear distinction between the words 'kill/murder' and 'punish'.

“Was der Tod der Elf einmal bedeuten wird, vermögen heute nur wenige zu ahnen — noch weniger kann ich darüber schreiben. Wir stehen mitten in einer grossen Zeitenwende. Was wir alle durchmachen sind ihre Geburtswehen. Alles scheint negativ — und einmal wird dann doch Neues and Grosses geboren werden....”

atlas sighed (at me)
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Quoted from Bon:
What proof do you have that the Republic Iran executes homosexuals based on that fact alone? No where in the Koran does it sanction the unjust murder of homosexuals, or anyone for that matter. It makes a very clear distinction between the words 'kill/murder' and 'punish'.

Because he hates America! And if he hates America, he is a terrorist! And if he is a terrorist, he obviously hates homosexuals! And if he hates homosexuals, we need to start a crusade to bring him to justice!

Quoted from Acheron:
I might call it "Say what?" and I'd have several Farsi experts translate things into English. It'd be interesting to see what might happen.

LOL, that is NOT going to happen because the media isn't interested in the truth. Rather, it is interested in what people find interesting; the alleged 'bigotry and hate' of the Iranian president.

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Pertti Susilainen
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It's an interpreter, not a translator learn u some stuff ok??

Anyway, any competent interpreter who uttered that quote in English would only do it if the intended meaning was the one that's being reported.

atlas sighed (at me)
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Quoted from Dimi:

I agree with you Dimi, the media is by far extremely fair, balanced, and unbiased in both this case and all others.

Especially Bill O'Rielly "No-Spin" Zone!

D
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thanks for helping my case

Snowy
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http://elbo.ws/video/G8VyVI-Lgu0/

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copy of video updated due to youtube's balls now being owned by The Man.

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This reply was last edited on 10-01-07 10:03:40 AM by Snowy.

atlas sighed (at me)
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Quoted from Snowy:

snl captured the song in vissario's heart

LoL

More Western propaganda! LOL! It (the visceral attacks and condemnations) never stops, man!

Snowy
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Quoted from vissario:
Quoted from Snowy:

snl captured the song in vissario's heart

LoL

More Western propaganda! LOL! It (the visceral attacks and condemnations) never stops, man!

I liek piez. And freedom! -- Dr. Ron Paul

This reply was last edited on 10-01-07 10:04:45 AM by Snowy.

Snowy
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