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etymxris
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So I was two buildings away when Norris hall was shot up. Entered class at 9am, nothing was amiss other than my being a few minutes late. Left class at 9:50am, but tons of people were standing around in the hallway. We had no idea what was going on. So I just walked out, not seeing a reason to stay, and then a stream of police vehicles go by, one of which had it's rear tire entirely blown out by what I don't know (it was running on its rim). Some students left anyway across the drill field without incident apparently. Though a little after that, anyone who tried to leave was accosted by police and told to go back in the building and stay away from windows. Many had cell phones and some had laptops connected to the school's wireless, and we were trying to figure out what was going on. The body count just started rising as someone shouted that we were allowed to leave. I only realized how high it was when I got home about noon.

I could recite what's been on the news but I don't think I could do it any better than the wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shootings

This reply was last edited on 04-17-07 07:59:24 AM by etymxris.

Hoff
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Apparently there was an initial shooting, but the university didnt cancel classes or anything. And then more people started dieing. The university certainly fucked up with that one.

etymxris
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Well the initial shooting seemed to be domestic, and in any case it was impossible to stop people from coming to classes by the time they learned of it. Nevertheless, I think key administration officials are going to get fired. Not because they should be, but because there are going to be many angry parents that second-guessing split-second decisions.

etymxris
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Apparently my roommate knows someone who was shot, twice in the leg. He knows second-hand some people that died (people that he knows know people that died).

ba
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Glad you're ok, ety.

I know quite a few people that go to VT now, and the ones I've talked to so far are all okay, with only a few I haven't heard anything from yet.

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etymxris
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I heard about the shootings on the news this morning, and it didn't click to me that you went to VT. I am very happy to hear that you are safe and that nothing happened to you. I'm sure that you must be shaken up about it. I know that I was crying earlier as the news was breaking. Such a tragic thing to happen. MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS

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D
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wow

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This is absolutely insane. I heard about it as I was leaving this morning.

Anyways, I don't think there was any negligence on the part of the university. From what I read in the wiki they have like 9,000 students coming and going. And it looks like a huge campus. So one shooting in the dorms isn't going to have that far-reaching of an effect. I don't think anyone could've envisioned that the one shooting in the dorms would lead to a mass killing in another building two hours later.

But, sadly, some university officials will probably be forced to resign to sate the vengenance appetite of the families of those who were killed.

In a lighter note finally there's something on TV to distract from the bullshit Don Imus story.

"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19

Hoff
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If someone is murdered in a dorm, and it looks pretty obvious that someone was actually murdered you better cancel classes and get the word out as fast as possible. I think it was pure negligence on the administration. The was no way to know what was going to happen, but you should take precautions in some way.

ba
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Quoted from Hoff:
If someone is murdered in a dorm, and it looks pretty obvious that someone was actually murdered you better cancel classes and get the word out as fast as possible. I think it was pure negligence on the administration. The was no way to know what was going to happen, but you should take precautions in some way.

How would you propose letting 9,000+ students, faculty, and staff spread over a large area and in dozens of buildings know that there's a killer on the loose and you don't know where he is, without creating widespread panic?

I believe they did as much as they could.

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How the hell could the gunman kill 32 people and wound another 29? Where was the security personnel? I mean, that had to take a long time (apparently one witness says it took at least 25 minutes).

I'm glad that you're ok, ety, You were also very lucky if you don't know anyone who was shot directly.

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This is the first I've heard of this, holy shit.

Damn sleep and work schedules are fucking up my "watching the news" time.

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pretty much a what the fuck kind of day. People are already asking what the hell was going on, considering with so much police why wasnt this guy at least identified and tracked down faster.

Tackle 'em all. Let the referee sort it out later.

Baggy_Brad
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Quoted from etymxris:
I think key administration officials are going to get fired. Not because they should be, but because there are going to be many angry parents that second-guessing split-second decisions.

Quoted from Hoff:
If someone is murdered in a dorm, and it looks pretty obvious that someone was actually murdered you better cancel classes and get the word out as fast as possible. I think it was pure negligence on the administration. The was no way to know what was going to happen, but you should take precautions in some way.

Angry parents like Hoff.

If the police shut down and evacuated every building within a 800m radius of an apartment block in the city after what looked like a domestic dispute I bet you'd be complaining about that too.

bradism.

D
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At my school a couple months ago there was a shooting down the road from one of our dorms. The cops couldn't find the shooter, and even though no students were involved, that entire part of campus was locked down. No classes were held till a full sweep of the campus was done. Nothing probably would have happened, but it was a good precaution to take. The only complaint anyone had about the way the situation was handled was the people in the dorms that were locked down weren't really told what was going on, they had to find out from people calling them telling them what they saw on the news. A SWAT team member climbing around outside your window is a scary sight especially if you have no clue why they're there.

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Baggy_Brad
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OK I rescind my point, it would have been just acceptable to lock down from the first shots fire. Especially seeing as those children were our future.

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How often does a double-homicide escalate into a 32 person massacre? It's not a prudent use of resources to shut down an entire area like that to find one man. They obviously didn't find anything that would have indicated that he would do something like this (even if it was the same man...has that been established yet?). You can't expect the cops to just magically know everything. If they should have shut down the campus, they should have shut down all the nearby office buildings as well, because there's no way they could have been able to guess where he was going to strike next. Accept that something horrible happened, and move on. Yes, they could have done better than an e-mail, but to expect them to shut down the campus *before* the second shooting is ridiculous.

D
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Some differences between my school and Virgia Tech though, my school is smaller. Its not a "small school" by any means but its no Virginia Tech. Also the shooting happened earlier in the morning than this one.

Still I think a lock down would have been a good idea. Sure i'd be pissed if I drove all the way to school to have them send me home, but it'd be understandable if there was a shooting on campus and the gunman wasn't anywhere to be found. Also if the first shooting happened at 7:15, an email could have been sent out immediately. Most people check their email/homepage before they leave for their morning commute, and seeing as classes usually start at 8:00 or 8:30, i'm sure it could have been done.

Quote:
Yes, they could have done better than an e-mail, but to expect them to shut down the campus *before* the second shooting is ridiculous.

Why? You dont have to think that a 33-death massacre is about to happen, but if you know theres a gunman/murderer somewhere on campus/in the area, general protocol is to try and find him as fast as possible and keep everyone else in the area safe.

"They could have grown up to become Hitler....collectively." - Ztolk's creepy Flash man

This reply was last edited on 04-17-07 05:45:13 AM by D.

Ryan
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I also know someone there (it didn't click until tonight when I asked some other friends if that's where they are). No one has gotten a hold of them, but I'm almost certain this person isn't at school. *hopes*. MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS

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I can't wait until this is used to justify even more extensive probes into the student body by campuses across the United States.

Hopefully, they'll let the new on-campus guards brandish their assault rifles on patrol for Osama & Co.!

Muzta
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I don't see negligence on the schools parts

I guy shot 50 people with a hand gun that holds 12 rounds (probably, at least in my state I believe that is the cap)

he obviously had a plan, a pretty damn good one

he was obviously trying to kill people, as many people as he could

and a lock down may have actually created a situation which would allow him to kill more people

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This reply was last edited on 04-17-07 10:21:50 AM by Muzta.

ba
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Quote:
I guy shot 50 people with a hand fun that holds 12 rounds (probably, at least in my state I believe that the cap)

I believe it was a Glock 17 he used, which can use 17, 19, or 33 round magazines.

After the assault ban was lifted a couple years ago, those became legal in VA.

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Zippo
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From what I've read, VT has a lot of commuter students, and if thousands of students showed up on Monday morning to attend classes only to find out that they were canceled, you'd have a lot of students crowding around outside. Not exactly a better situation.

However, if they had some type of "lockdown alarm," (like a siren of sorts) which would signal to students and faculty to get inside and lock the doors due to some danger, that might have helped a lot.

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etymxris
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While we're playing what ifs on the school's response, would we have been able to stop the shooter had he targeted Norris first? People in fark threads were pointing out recent incidents where isolated campus shootings had not resulted in school lockdowns. Of course, there was no outrage in those incidents, because they did not turn into massacres.

This could have easily happened on any campus in the country. Hindsight and armchair quarterbacking is easy, but isn't a good way to judge split second decisions made with no foreknowledge of what was to come.

Nevertheless, I'm sure lockdown policies will change, even if a dorm shooting never turns into a massacre again. The next person, obviously aware of policy changes, will simply start his massacre right away rather than preceding it by hours with a targeted killing.

Quoted from Zippo:
From what I've read, VT has a lot of commuter students, and if thousands of students showed up on Monday morning to attend classes only to find out that they were canceled, you'd have a lot of students crowding around outside. Not exactly a better situation.

No, that would have been much better, actually. Without the killer locking the building and people being trapped in classrooms with only one entrance/exit, there would not have been as many victims.

Quoted from Zippo:
However, if they had some type of "lockdown alarm," (like a siren of sorts) which would signal to students and faculty to get inside and lock the doors due to some danger, that might have helped a lot.

Only if it locked all the classroom doors from the outside. By the time people knew what was happening, the killer had already chained the building doors shut from the inside.

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