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(Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:13:44 AM)
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I used to be of the belief that we shouldn't eat dogs and cats and other pets. But as I got older and more rational I began to realize the absurdity of that belief. Pigs are generally believed to be much smarter than a dog or a cat, yet we eat pigs all the time. Why is this? Because most people think pigs are ugly.

That's it. It's this silly human emotional foible to not want to eat cute things. So instead of not eating something because it's cute, why not refrain from eating something because it's intelligent? The only things I don't think we should slaughter and eat are great apes, dolphins, elephants and certain birds (like ravens, which recent research suggests they are as smart or smarter than the great apes). These animals have all shown a capacity for higher thinking. The ability to think things out before they do them. To follow a series of complicated steps planned out beforehand. And most importantly the ability to recognize themselves and others as separate individuals.

Cows, sheep, goats, and the other animals we eat are relatively mindless. Even pigs. Pigs may be smarter than your average cow or buffalo, but they're still rather dumb. And unless future studies prove otherwise, cats and dogs fall into the category of lesser animals. So if some people in Asia are raising and killing dogs for food, why is that so bad? Granted as long as they're treated humanely during their life I don't really see the problem.

I thought this would be an interesting topic to bring up.
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Reply 1 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:19:56 AM)
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It's not really bad in my eyes at all. I'm not sure where the allegiance to animals like cats and dogs came from that makes it so it's a taboo to eat them.

On a similar note, Kangaroo meat is tough and tastes like beef or even bison. Horse meat is just disgusting.

and I've never liked lamb, it just has a weird taste to it.

I'll gladly eat pretty much anything that moves though.
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Reply 2 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:22:25 AM)
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Add Octopus to the list of smart animals.
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Reply 3 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:23:33 AM)
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Being vegetarian, I am more or less of the opinion that eating animals is wrong in any event. But from a purely rational perspective I agree that if you eat pigs, cows, sheep, etc. then dogs and cats shouldn't be sacrosanct just because they're cute. There is no purely rational reason not to eat pigs, cows, sheep, etc. but not cats and dogs.
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Reply 4 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:39:24 AM)
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Quoted from Snook:
Being vegetarian, I am more or less of the opinion that eating animals is wrong in any event. But from a purely rational perspective I agree that if you eat pigs, cows, sheep, etc. then dogs and cats shouldn't be sacrosanct just because they're cute. There is no purely rational reason not to eat pigs, cows, sheep, etc. but not cats and dogs.

Do you eat fish/are you okay with eating fish?
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Reply 5 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 02:58:06 AM)
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Yeah, I've always found that weird, that lots of vegetarians don't mind eating fish, minus extremist Vegans.
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Reply 6 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:01:20 AM)
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Quoted from Purple:
Yeah, I've always found that weird, that lots of vegetarians don't mind eating fish, minus extremist Vegans.


Because they're fucking idiots.

I think people just have an emotional attachment to dogs. That and I doubt there's much tasty meat on them.
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Reply 7 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:07:31 AM)
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I think that in addition to cats and dogs being cute, there's also (at least in America) an emotional attachment to pets. We think of them as "friends". It different for stockyard animals because you're not really going to create a bond with a cow. You're not going to teach it how to roll over; it's not going to catch your frisbee, etc. That being said, I don't hold much stock in being emotionally attached to animals. I personally have no qualms about eating household pets.

Quoted from Purple:
Yeah, I've always found that weird, that lots of vegetarians don't mind eating fish, minus extremist Vegans.


Fish don't have feelings, man.
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Reply 8 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:07:38 AM)
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Quoted from Purple:
Yeah, I've always found that weird, that lots of vegetarians don't mind eating fish, minus extremist Vegans.

I agree. I mean some people just don't really like the taste of meat/the idea of eating meat, and don't have much more than a vauge sense of thinking its wrong to eat animals, yet don't really care that much and will still enjoy fish (and sometimes poultry) when given the opportunity. I understand that they might want to call themselves a vegitarian because its easier than explaining all that.

But those who pride themselves on their strong opinions on how its wrong to eat animals and make a big stink about their vegetarianism, yet still eat fish (and sometimes poultry).. Those, those drive me crazy.

edit:

Quote:
Fish don't have feelings, man.

How do you know? A fish can't tell me it doesn't wish to be farmed and killed and sold and eaten, but neither can a cow. If fish don't have feelings, neither do cows. If cows do, so do fish. Same goes for chickens on either side of the equation.
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Reply 9 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:36:57 AM)
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I believe his post was full of sarcasm. and I'm kind of hoping yours isn't too, because then I will look silly.
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Reply 10 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:38:57 AM)
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Dogs and cats have coevolved with humans. There's a reason we often find them cute and cuddly--it's because most of the ugly ones died. Also, the sounds that domesticated cats make are much better suited to living among humans than those made by wildcats. This probably only happened in the last few thousand years. The various farm animals have also been domesticated, but cows were selected for their milk or meat, chickens for their eggs, and so on.

I agree though that none of this is a good reason to hold dogs and cats as more sacred than any other animal. Many laugh at India's taboo against cow meat, but in their religion, cows are one of the highest animals. It's easy to see our taboos on dog or cat meat are not in principle different.
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Reply 11 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:42:07 AM)
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I laugh more at the taboo of pig, considering it's one of, if not the most cleanest animals around. I think it's Muslims that aren't allowed to eat it because of their religion, and it's because they are dirty. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not really too sure about it.
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Reply 12 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:44:58 AM)
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Quoted from Purple:
I believe his post was full of sarcasm. and I'm kind of hoping yours isn't too, because then I will look silly.

Yeah, i'm sure it might have been sarcasm. Either way though, I just wanted to resonate my point. Doesn't really matter if he was serious or not, cause someone out there is saying that and not being sarcastic.
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Reply 13 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 03:59:28 AM)
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It's quite annoying when people transfer human emotions onto their animals ("My chihuahua is my BABY! That's why i pamper her with spa treatments and fancy dog clothes" "My pets and i have unconditional love for eachother!!")

Your cat doesn't love you, you fucking idiot, and your dog isn't a child.

And to all the shallow hollywood stars out there: No, giving your charity money to a fucking rehabilitation facility for homeless dogs isn't as valuable as giving it to kids in africa.
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Reply 14 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 04:14:34 AM)
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It has nothing to do with intelligence or cuteness. Cats and Dogs are just traditionally pets.

It's the same reason that you don't eat Horses, they're just more useful if you use them rather than eat them. Horses for riding/plowing, Dogs for herding/hunting, Cats for killing vermin or worshipping (Ancient Egypt).

One horse can feed a family for maybe a week. One horse and a plow can potentailly supply a family with enough vegetables for a year.
One cat may make for one stringy meal. One cat on a wooden sailing ship can kill rats on it and save your entire crew from many varied vermin diseases.
One dog could feed you for a day. One dog on a farm can do the job it might take 3 or 4 shepards to do keeping sheep herded, instead of running off and being killed by wolves.

Of course in modern times, their usefulness may not apply to everyday life, but usefulness has been replaced with emotionial attachment and simple dining tradition.

As far as cuteness, one could argue that you only think cats and dogs are cute because you grew up being told, and therefore thinking they're cute.
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This reply was last edited on 04-09-07 04:27:33 AM by ba.
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Reply 15 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 04:58:24 AM)
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Quoted from Purple:
I laugh more at the taboo of pig, considering it's one of, if not the most cleanest animals around. I think it's Muslims that aren't allowed to eat it because of their religion, and it's because they are dirty. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not really too sure about it.
This doesnt come from them being filthy, this comes from the unhealthy meat that comes of omnivores.

Back in the day, you didn't eat meat eaters because they had no way to tell if it was healthy meat. Pigs eat anything, even the dead and rotting. Muslims still don't eat pigs, because it was a health hazard back in the day, and it got incorporated into the Quoran that eating them is bad.

We can eat pig, because now we are capable to tell the bad meat and the good meat apart. Besides, we generaly decide what they eat in the first place.

I still think its filthy to eat meat of a hunting animal (dogs), or an animal that eats anything (pigs).
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Reply 16 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 05:47:11 AM)
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People that don't eat meat because it's wrong to kill animals are idiots. Plants are just as alive and aware of their surroundings as animals. Same thing goes for those that don't want to eat things that will eat "anything". Plants eat shit and get nutrients from dirt. They thrive when compost rots in the soil around them. If you won't eat pig, steer clear of vegetables.
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Reply 17 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:02:06 AM)
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you must be the dumbest fuck I have ever met on the internet if you really think that
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Reply 18 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:11:43 AM)
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Not my best wording ever, but people are irrational when it comes to what they think is gross. Cows stand in their own piss and shit all day, and other cows come along and eat from the grass there. Sure, pigs eat trash, but most of their feed comes from human food that has "expired". Just because it's turned into slop, that doesn't make it unclean. It's nothing that you haven't ever eaten before, just in a different form/mixture.

As far as the vegetarian comment goes, people just need to understand that in order for life to continue, something has to die. Drawing irrational lines such as vegetarianism is silly, because who is anyone to say what does or does not suffer when it's killed? Come to terms with death like an adult and eat.
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Reply 19 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:21:32 AM)
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I agree dog is kosher. I disagree that intelligence would be a valid factor in deciding what to eat, because at any rate any line we drew would be pretty arbitrary.

It's as BA said, it's just a cultural thing. Our culture holds cats, dogs and horses in high esteem because we see them as companions, and we will only eat them in the most dire circumstances.

Jimmy has a point about plants being living beings too. If the point was respecting life above all things, we could only eat fruit and the like. However, I think the point is rather not eating sentient beings. Beings that have a nervous system.
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Reply 20 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:41:24 AM)
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Note that the first person to successfully make it to the South Pole ate his sled dogs along the way. It was a group of Norwegians. The British man he was racing ended up dying before making it back, I'm guessing partly because he didn't think to eat his own dogs.
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Reply 21 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:44:39 AM)
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I agree that vegetarians are idiots, the lot of them.

Its not what the animals stand in, its not the quality of their environment. Its their intestines that are tailored to digest anything. To be able to digest dead flesh, and bone and rotting plants and such, you need to have a body equiped with an elaborate toxic disposal system, which influences all the parts of the body we eat.

For hunting animals such as dogs, their bodies are tailored to lean living, running and toughness. They require thin and strong, yet fibrant muscle structure. Which makes them less tasty.

But this is all just cultural residue, from a time where you actually ate the animal. Nowadays, all your food is processed endlessly, you wouldnt notice if your preprocessed food was made of cow, pig, dog, rat or human.
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Reply 22 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 06:51:07 AM)
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Which is a pity. It's hard to find decent meat to cook these days. It all tastes extremely bland. MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS
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Reply 23 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 07:32:18 AM)
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Quote:
Why is this?


Didn't read all of the thread, so unless this has been said....

The reason why we eat pigs as opposed to dogs is simple economics. Pigs are usually larger, contain more fat/less muscle, and most importantly, can grow extremely fast very quickly. From the point when they come out of the sow to the time they are ready to be shipped off to the processing plant, it may only take less than 6 months. Dogs, however, cannot easily accommodate so much weight and take longer to grow. In other words, the fundamental problem which makes dogs less useful is simple capitalism; the profit margin with growing, selling, and then butchering a dog will simply be less than with spending the same to butcher a pig.

It's not like this a modern-age discovery either. The ancients realized this when they were inventing the concept of animal husbandry. The quickly found out that if you are going to invest time and resources into an animal, it had to bring in the bacon, literally. This, more than anything, is why the dog-meat market in Asia is more of an expensive delicacy than it is a consumer mainstay.
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Reply 24 of 106 (Originally posted on: 04-09-07 08:45:40 AM)
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I have only 5 minutes, so I can't respond to the criticism at the moment. However, to quote bash (this is more for jimmy):

Quote:
#198076 +(738)- [X]

SomethingTrifty: I'm vegetarian for a different reason
SomethingTrifty: It's not because I like animals
SomethingTrifty: i just fucking hate plants

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