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goldorak
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(Originally posted on: 03-19-07 08:03:14 PM)
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it's election time here in quebec and a recent issue has become a mainstream part of the politics: reasonable accomodation

stories recently include:
-the montreal police force recommends that female officers call on male backup when dealing with hasidic men
-a ymca darkening its window in response from a complaint from a nearby hasidic synagogue
-men banned from pre-natal classes because muslim men don't think males belong there
-separate swimming exams for muslim girls
-sikh daggers in school

the list goes on and on

what do you think, how reasonable is reasonable?
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Reply 1 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 08:04:19 PM)
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So...this is like segregation sort of?
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Reply 2 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 08:20:58 PM)
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Quote:
what do you think, how reasonable is reasonable?


When you let religious and ideological fundies rule a society you can't expect any legislation to be reasonable.

Canada just doesn't impress me as being a more enlightened or tolerant place than the United States in either its structure or actual implementation of its laws. But, on that same note, I am all for people making laws which they feel best suit their societies.

Just don't expect me to want to live in a place where PC activists have successfully dumbed down everything to avoid some religious follower being "offended" at the sight of something no kosher. Even if it is at the price of freedom of speech, expression, and all that other stuff which becomes inconvenient when Nazis, KKKers, and nationalists come out of the wood-work to express their views.
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Reply 3 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 09:20:45 PM)
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-the montreal police force recommends that female officers call on male backup when dealing with hasidic men
No
-a ymca darkening its window in response from a complaint from a nearby hasidic synagogue
No
-men banned from pre-natal classes because muslim men don't think males belong there
No
-separate swimming exams for muslim girls
No
-sikh daggers in school
No

I'm done, that was easy.

-sperate swimming exams for fat chicks
Yes!
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Reply 4 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 09:33:53 PM)
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Any time you give a group of people an advantage over another group of people based on their beliefs or ethnicity, there exists a problem.
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Reply 5 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 09:41:46 PM)
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I don't think any of the examples you gave need to be done except for the separate swimming exams for Muslim girls. I see no problem with that one.
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Reply 6 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 10:26:39 PM)
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Hey this is a step up for Quebec. The last time a group of people wanted some rights stuff starting blowing up and people went missing on the street.

However with the school deal, why wouldnt the school just close the curtains. Oh and in the news today the YMCA took down the old frosted windows.
Tackle 'em all. Let the referee sort it out later.
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Reply 7 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-19-07 10:44:43 PM)
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Quoted from emtilt:
I don't think any of the examples you gave need to be done except for the separate swimming exams for Muslim girls. I see no problem with that one.

I agree. The other issues involve infringing upon the rights of others to accommodate the religious values.
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Reply 8 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 12:13:24 AM)
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Quoted from Kitabatake:
Any time you give a group of people an advantage over another group of people based on their beliefs or ethnicity, there exists a problem.


Unless it's affirmative action for blacks. Because we owe them.
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Reply 9 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 12:56:39 AM)
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The most questionable part of this for me is.. there's such a thing as a swimming exam?
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Reply 10 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 01:00:41 AM)
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Quoted from Zippo:
Quoted from emtilt:
I don't think any of the examples you gave need to be done except for the separate swimming exams for Muslim girls. I see no problem with that one.

I agree. The other issues involve infringing upon the rights of others to accommodate the religious values.

Yep. At least in America I know this oversteps the boundaries of reasonable accommodation; I don't know what the laws are in Quebec, however.
Quoted from goldorak:
-the montreal police force recommends that female officers call on male backup when dealing with hasidic men

Not too far, though, considering it is only a recommendation and not a requirement.
i am raising my eyebrow


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Reply 11 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 07:19:49 AM)
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Quote:
Unless it's affirmative action for blacks. Because we owe them.


Yea, we sure do for making their fellow citizens enslave and sell them for a profit.
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Reply 12 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 08:40:34 AM)
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Quoted from IF0:
The most questionable part of this for me is.. there's such a thing as a swimming exam?
I don't understand what the big deal is, exactly. They made the Blowjob portion of the exam optional years ago.
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Reply 13 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 08:43:39 AM)
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Well, most students opt in so there is a great amount of peer pressure on those that don't want to do it to opt in anyway. And we all know how bad kids are at resisting peer pressure.
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Reply 14 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 08:58:03 AM)
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All of those seem pretty dumb, but the separate swimming exams for Muslims seems the most retarded of them all. Welcome to the twenty first century people; we all live together, let's make it work.

As for the others: if you just put up with the angry Jews and don't give in, they'll stop making a fuss. Letting kids bring knives to school seems like a serious safety issue, I don't know how it can be justified.
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Reply 15 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 11:06:51 AM)
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What's that line.. "You don't have the right to not be offended."
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Reply 16 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 05:48:52 PM)
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Quote:
Letting kids bring knives to school seems like a serious safety issue,


Pencils and pens can easily be as dangerous as a knife, BAN THEM! BAN THEM TO HELL ALONG WITH ALL OTHER THINGS WHICH THEY CAN EXPRESS THEMSELVES BY!
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Reply 17 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:19:47 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quote:
Letting kids bring knives to school seems like a serious safety issue,


Pencils and pens can easily be as dangerous as a knife, BAN THEM! BAN THEM TO HELL ALONG WITH ALL OTHER THINGS WHICH THEY CAN EXPRESS THEMSELVES BY!


If you assault someone with a pencil, is it assault with a deadly weapon? How about with a knife?
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Reply 18 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:21:01 PM)
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Yes. And battery as well, obviously (battery = unwanted touching).
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Reply 19 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:21:58 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quote:
Letting kids bring knives to school seems like a serious safety issue,


Pencils and pens can easily be as dangerous as a knife, BAN THEM! BAN THEM TO HELL ALONG WITH ALL OTHER THINGS WHICH THEY CAN EXPRESS THEMSELVES BY!


There's a big difference between pens/pencils and knives (and the weapons the Sikhs carry around are more like daggers). Knives are used for stabbing and cutting, pens/pencils are used for writing.
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Reply 20 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:36:30 PM)
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What I want to know is how kids EXPRESS THEMSELVES BY with knives.
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Reply 21 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:37:22 PM)
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Quote:
Knives are used for stabbing and cutting, pens/pencils are used for writing.


Yea, I realize that.

However, my point is that pens and pencils can be just as equally deadly as a ceremonial blade and yet the former is allowed and not the latter?

Believe it or not, if a person is intent on killing someone, they are going to accomplish it whether they bring a pen to do it or a knife.
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Reply 22 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:38:21 PM)
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Atleast "death by ceremonial dagger" looks a hell of a lot cooler than "mutilated with a pen."
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Reply 23 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 06:58:14 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quote:
Knives are used for stabbing and cutting, pens/pencils are used for writing.


Yea, I realize that.

However, my point is that pens and pencils can be just as equally deadly as a ceremonial blade and yet the former is allowed and not the latter?

Believe it or not, if a person is intent on killing someone, they are going to accomplish it whether they bring a pen to do it or a knife.


Your point is moot. Pens and pencils are not normally used for killing and it is considerably harder to kill with a pen or a pencil as opposed to a knife or dagger. A knife or dagger is a deadly weapon designed to kill people, pens and pencils are designed for putting words to paper.
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Reply 24 of 97 (Originally posted on: 03-20-07 07:00:00 PM)
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Quote:
However, my point is that pens and pencils can be just as equally deadly as a ceremonial blade and yet the former is allowed and not the latter?


Pens and pencils have a place in classrooms. You write shit with them. You actually use them. When do you ever need a knife to learn how to multiply?
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