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Smokey
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(Originally posted on: 12-30-06 06:10:38 AM)
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I think this would be an easy movie to never see - but I saw it and being a lifelong fan of the original Rocky (at least the first two films) - I was really really surprised with how good this movie was, and how worth the money it was.

It's not without a certain degree of corn, but even when it does it seems kind of appropriate. When it's not a tribute to the oldschool Rocky, it's a decent movie. To me that's two positives, check it out.
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Reply 1 of 24 (Originally posted on: 12-30-06 10:40:33 AM)
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Thanks for the review. I too had been a fan of the Rocky movies and pretty much everything Stallone has done. Looking forward to seeing it.
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Reply 2 of 24 (Originally posted on: 12-30-06 02:57:03 PM)
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I saw it, too, and it's pretty much what you would expect for a decently done Rocky movie. I'm not a huge fan of the Rocky movies so I was kinda ambivalent about it, but if you are a fan of any of the previous movies, you will like it.
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Reply 3 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-01-07 09:49:14 PM)
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I saw this Christmas day and have to agree its one of the best and is a way better ending to the franchise...instead of the turd that was rocky 5. It seemed to totally capture the worn out fighterwith mounting issues, trying for one shot at glory and end it on a high note.
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Reply 4 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-03-07 07:53:14 AM)
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I think the only way this movie would've been amazing would be to have Rocky die brutally in the ring, fighting his way to the very end, and with his final breath softly crying, 'Adrian'.
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Reply 5 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-04-07 08:48:35 PM)
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I saw it, and it was pretty damn good. Definitely a well done rocky movie.

If you never liked any of the Rocky films, or never saw them before, this movie isn't for you.
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Reply 6 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-15-07 01:33:05 AM)
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Yes you are definitely better off if you enjoyed Rocky in his prime. Otherwise you may be annoyed by the fact that the movies point is beaten over your head with just about every scene. It's a Rocky movie through and through so know what you're getting into.

It's a classy piece of nostalgia with more heart than brains...but Rocky always had a way of being accidentally smart. Still does.

Let's all just pray that this is the FINAL final Rocky.
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Reply 7 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-15-07 11:48:33 PM)
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Quoted from Smokey:
Yes you are definitely better off if you enjoyed Rocky in his prime. Otherwise you may be annoyed by the fact that the movies point is beaten over your head with just about every scene. It's a Rocky movie through and through so know what you're getting into.

It's a classy piece of nostalgia with more heart than brains...but Rocky always had a way of being accidentally smart. Still does.

Let's all just pray that this is the FINAL final Rocky.


rocky 7... PAYBACK.

An aging Ivan Dragos son comes to american to challenge balboa's son, winner take ALL

I still enjoy the simpsons, what was it "rocky 12 - Adrians Revenge"
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Reply 8 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-16-07 08:02:10 PM)
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Quote:
I think the only way this movie would've been amazing would be to have Rocky die brutally in the ring, fighting his way to the very end, and with his final breath softly crying, 'Adrian'.


American audiences would never tolerate the idea that the "good guy" doesn't always win, somehow, in the end.

In other words, it would be communist.
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Reply 9 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-16-07 11:14:17 PM)
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Quoted from Vissario:
Quote:
I think the only way this movie would've been amazing would be to have Rocky die brutally in the ring, fighting his way to the very end, and with his final breath softly crying, 'Adrian'.


American audiences would never tolerate the idea that the "good guy" doesn't always win, somehow, in the end.

In other words, it would be communist.


Like Braveheart. Completely tanked in America.
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Reply 10 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-17-07 07:06:14 PM)
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Quoted from wheezy:
Quoted from Vissario:
Quote:
I think the only way this movie would've been amazing would be to have Rocky die brutally in the ring, fighting his way to the very end, and with his final breath softly crying, 'Adrian'.


American audiences would never tolerate the idea that the "good guy" doesn't always win, somehow, in the end.

In other words, it would be communist.


Like Braveheart. Completely tanked in America.


Vissario is really good at being wrong.
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Reply 11 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-17-07 10:06:59 PM)
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Like Braveheart. Completely tanked in America.


Americans liked it because it was the story of a "freedom fighter" (AKA terrorist) fighting the invading English in a struggle not too different from our own before 1776. The whole allegorical point of the movie was to criticize aggressive empires and to support the idea that nationalist boundaries are, in fact, the only ones which should be respected, not imperial ones. Really, if the general American public wasn't so drunk on the idea of America being the ultimate sum of goodliness in the world, they probably would have seen it as a slap in the face of their own nation's blatant imperialism and line-drawing.

You know, I think I'm going to direct a movie based along the same theme with Iraq (lead under Saddam Hussein) fighting the American-lead invasion. I hope people will respond to it with equal ardour.
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Reply 12 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-18-07 12:17:11 AM)
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Smokey, that post was not even slightly on topic and served no purpose other than to goad him on. Keep that in ID or something, not here.
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Reply 13 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-18-07 09:08:27 PM)
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Quote:
Americans liked it because it was the story of a "freedom fighter" (AKA terrorist) fighting the invading English in a struggle not too different from our own before 1776. The whole allegorical point of the movie was to criticize aggressive empires and to support the idea that nationalist boundaries are, in fact, the only ones which should be respected, not imperial ones. Really, if the general American public wasn't so drunk on the idea of America being the ultimate sum of goodliness in the world, they probably would have seen it as a slap in the face of their own nation's blatant imperialism and line-drawing.


I'm pretty sure the enjoyment of Americans watching the movie has nothing to do with the revolutionary war. I'm pretty sure they liked it because it was a really well done movie, with excellent action scenes, and an excellent climatic ending.
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Reply 14 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-19-07 06:15:43 PM)
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The Triumph of the Will was a fantastically well-done movie which blazed the path for all that followed. Movies like Star Wars: A New Hope to even your vaunted Braveheart all incorporated a lot of the elements found in it to be the "success" that they were.

Why then, if it was so well-done, did Triumph not receive half as much ardor? Because it supported an idea contrary to America's notion of 'right' and 'wrong'?
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Reply 15 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-19-07 07:20:25 PM)
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The Triumph of the Will was more a documentary than anything else. As a documentary, it is quite celebrated even today, in spite of the ideology behind it.

On the other hand, perhaps you could explain why Braveheart was well received outside the US too.
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 16 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-19-07 07:50:21 PM)
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Quote:
On the other hand, perhaps you could explain why Braveheart was well received outside the US too.


For the same reason it was in the states; it makes a hero of a terrorist and dissident.

Most nations can all hearken back to a gilded period in their time where they either struggled to be free of a conqueror or were struggling to become their own nation. And in those times, individuals come to the forefront who lead others to those victories and are ultimate celebrated if their ideology continues on.

The main character in Braveheart was a man who emulated this idea. He fought "the good fight", a "universal notion" of nationalism, civic-minded duty, and loyalty in the face of the treacherous English and their conniving plans for war. It wasn't just that it was a "great" movie, it had a pathos which reminded the viewer of some fantastic past movement towards freedom, towards liberty, and towards the modern society they share in.
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Reply 17 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-20-07 03:45:54 PM)
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Good point, I'll give you that. Obviously, there was more to Braveheart than a universally appealing story, but anyway, if you scroll up you'll find you're proving your initial point wrong yourself: it's not necessary for the good guy to win, there's more to it.
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 18 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-20-07 08:34:33 PM)
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Quote:
you're proving your initial point wrong yourself: it's not necessary for the good guy to win, there's more to it.


Forgive me, but I don't follow.

My point was that if the main protagonist doesn't win some type of victory, American audiences would never stomach the implications of that nor would they shell out money to watch.

In Braveheart, the "victory" is not the tangible defeat of the English armies and government, but it is the moral "victory" of the main protagonist against the conniving English armies and leader. In effect, even though he lost, the overall pathos the film evokes is the idea that "we", the audience identifying with him, won on the moral plane in spite of the fact that "he", notice how the audience will then separate themselves, lost the actual fight.

So, once again, I will interject that if someone were to make a movie along the similar lines of Braveheart's plot with Iraq taking the place of Scotland and Saddam being the main protagonist, American audiences would be unable to tolerate the movie no matter how well it was done.
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Reply 19 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-21-07 04:08:45 PM)
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Quoted from Vissario:
Quote:
On the other hand, perhaps you could explain why Braveheart was well received outside the US too.


For the same reason it was in the states; it makes a hero of a terrorist and dissident.

Most nations can all hearken back to a gilded period in their time where they either struggled to be free of a conqueror or were struggling to become their own nation. And in those times, individuals come to the forefront who lead others to those victories and are ultimate celebrated if their ideology continues on.

The main character in Braveheart was a man who emulated this idea. He fought "the good fight", a "universal notion" of nationalism, civic-minded duty, and loyalty in the face of the treacherous English and their conniving plans for war. It wasn't just that it was a "great" movie, it had a pathos which reminded the viewer of some fantastic past movement towards freedom, towards liberty, and towards the modern society they share in.


So people like movies where a terrorist is a hero. They always like movies where terrorists are stopped and the hero is a "traditional" hero. People like heroes.

In American History X, there was certainly a bitter taste  when Edward Furlong (Derrick's brother) is killed. It's arguable as to whom was the main protagonist of the movie, but neither Norton or Furlong "win" at the end. They both changed from their Neo-Nazi ways, but then a high school kid gets shot for no reason. That's certainly no happy ending. 
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Smokey
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Reply 20 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-30-07 04:28:28 AM)
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Quoted from emtilt:
Smokey, that post was not even slightly on topic and served no purpose other than to goad him on. Keep that in ID or something, not here.


Thanks for the lecture but no.
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Smokey
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Reply 21 of 24 (Originally posted on: 01-30-07 04:29:18 AM)
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You deserve the ban opportunity.

(Typed this post to Rocky theme and drank an egg)
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This reply was last edited on 01-30-07 04:36:31 AM by Smokey.
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Reply 22 of 24 (Originally posted on: 02-06-07 08:01:37 PM)
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Quote:
People like heroes.


Yea, people in general are simply too closed-minded to the idea that people do things to suite their own self-interests, not to combat some "evil force" in the name of "good". It simply is disgusting that so much of Western literature, poetry, drama, and film making still tokens back to the days of fables and tavern-room tales.
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Reply 23 of 24 (Originally posted on: 02-09-07 04:50:43 AM)
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Some people like to watch movies to escape the reality of things, Vis, not be reminded of it. They don't want the brilliant writing if it takes them through blood gore sex and betrayal. Which isn't shallow. And what about a movie with just people in it? No heroes, just people. Look at Forrest Gump, that movie was huge! People got it. And if you think about it people like to relate to things that they feel are held in a higher regard then themselves. Its a confidence booster, really. That and who doesn't like Spiderman? Seriously!
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Reply 24 of 24 (Originally posted on: 02-09-07 10:54:01 AM)
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Quote:
Look at Forrest Gump


A war hero?

An entrepreneur?

A civil-rights protester?

What exactly isn't heroic about the guy? He's a freakin retard who manages to do more in his life than most people even dream about. And you know what else? He does all the "right" things, that is, all the ones that give people a warm, fuzzy feeling in their heart.
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