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atlas sighed (at me)
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(Originally posted on: 11-07-06 09:30:29 PM)
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News Link

That's right boys and girls, our good ol' buddy Saddam, the vaunted genocidal lunatic, baby killer, Provocateur of Wars, and Wrecker of Worlds, has finally received the death sentence for only one of his ten-or-so cases still on the Iraqi court's docket.

To be honest, though, this really does come as a surprise to me as I, like Saddam, have failed to see exactly what crime he broke in his tenure as "democratically elected President" of Iraq. The traifs and titles aside, I think this cases is a landmark not in civil "justice", but rather, in proof that America can enter countries, throw out ruling regimes, and have the moxy to pass retroactive 'morality laws' as justification to get rid of inconvenient dictators and other undesirables in a most "democratic" way.

Indeed, Bush and his cadre of advisers must feel lucky as there is no other nation powerful enough to do the same to him.

So, what do you think?
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Reply 1 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 09:44:14 PM)
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President since 1979, Dujail massacre in 1982.
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Reply 2 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 09:58:42 PM)
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Quoted from visuXio:
To be honest, though, this really does come as a surprise to me as I, like Saddam, have failed to see exactly what crime he broke in his tenure as "democratically elected President" of Iraq.


I think it was murder?? OMG why is Dad kissing that guy?!?
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Reply 3 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:06:30 PM)
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Quote:
President since 1979, Dujail massacre in 1982.


That's irrelevant.

We, supposedly, are trying to create a Government in Iraq similar to our own in that it believes in things like freedom of the press, equality, and most of all, something which Saddam adamantly railed against, a judicial system which enforced laws which were put into place after its inception.

The charges of murder, genocide, and baby killing are all retroactive in that the courts are punishing him for things he did long before their inception. The new government of Iraq is punishing the man who controlled the old government of Iraq as if he and his action were under their jurisdiction; and he, most clearly, was not.
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Reply 4 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:06:31 PM)
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edit: dubya post
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Reply 5 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:10:31 PM)
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Something tells me that even if he were sentenced under the old laws of his country, he'd still be put to death. Mass genocide and murder were still punishable in Old Iraq, I assume.

Regardless, if they're sentencing him under laws that didn't exist, that's ex post facto and is unconstitutional in most legal systems (Except China's or NK's I bet kekeke u give soj???). But, like I said, something tells me that every country has laws against murder and such.
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Reply 6 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:36:43 PM)
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Didn't the Bush(Senior) administration put Saddam into power? I could be wrong.
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Reply 7 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:41:21 PM)
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"Meh" This should of been done in 1991.
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Reply 8 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:42:54 PM)
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Quoted from KaosDeath:
Didn't the Bush(Senior) administration put Saddam into power? I could be wrong.


No they just funded him because he gave Iran the old invasion. So they gave him goods, services, weapons and turned a blind eye to the kurds cause no one cares about the kurds
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Reply 9 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 10:48:43 PM)
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I think they should make a reality show, where saddam has to live with american celebrites like the surreal life, and we sit and laugh how he addapts to american culture, and just sits in a wifebeater eating cheetos and yelling at the TV while watching NASCAR, trying to ignore carrot top's antics, and chyna trying to seduce him with a real shitty bellydance
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Reply 10 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 11:34:36 PM)
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That would be amazing.
No ifs ands or buts, these kids got guts.

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Reply 11 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 11:57:59 PM)
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This girl from one of my classes had this to say:

"He's getting hanged! Isn't that exciting?!"

Stupid cunt.
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Reply 12 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-07-06 11:59:38 PM)
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I don't have a problem hanging Saddam, but I want Bush and Cheney hung at the same time, though.
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Reply 13 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 12:19:50 AM)
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I dont really believe in the death penalty. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over saddam...
No ifs ands or buts, these kids got guts.

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Reply 14 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 12:44:05 AM)
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Quoted from Dante:
I don't have a problem hanging Saddam, but I want Bush and Cheney hung at the same time, though.

Yeah, Saddam, Bush, Hitler, Stalin, Bill from accounting, Ghengis Khan, Allen Iverson, Himmler, Ray Romano..... All pretty much the same thing.
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Reply 15 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 01:22:16 AM)
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Quoted from DiXi:
Quoted from Dante:
I don't have a problem hanging Saddam, but I want Bush and Cheney hung at the same time, though.

Yeah, Saddam, Bush, Hitler, Stalin, Bill from accounting, Ghengis Khan, Allen Iverson, Himmler, Ray Romano..... All pretty much the same thing.


AI is one bad mofo tho.
No ifs ands or buts, these kids got guts.

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Reply 16 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 01:31:02 AM)
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Quoted from visuXio:
Quote:
President since 1979, Dujail massacre in 1982.


That's irrelevant.

We, supposedly, are trying to create a Government in Iraq similar to our own in that it believes in things like freedom of the press, equality, and most of all, something which Saddam adamantly railed against, a judicial system which enforced laws which were put into place after its inception.

The charges of murder, genocide, and baby killing are all retroactive in that the courts are punishing him for things he did long before their inception. The new government of Iraq is punishing the man who controlled the old government of Iraq as if he and his action were under their jurisdiction; and he, most clearly, was not.

so - and I do mean seriously - so?

So he's being charged with crimes under a government that replaced it's prior government and courts - his prior government and courts.
Oh the injustice!
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Reply 17 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 05:32:42 AM)
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Vissario does have a point about the unjust nature of the whole trial, though. To me it sounds like Nuremberg Trials Reloaded. Not that the guy isn't guilty, of course, but you knew from the beginning how the trial would end, no matter what.

I hope Saddam lives enough to get the US and Europe into an awful mess in the trial for the massacres of the Kurds, though.

Also, I'm against the death penalty. And I mean it, unlike Tony Blair.
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Reply 18 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 06:30:38 AM)
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Having actually spent time talking to Iraqis and seeing their complete and utter disgust for him, it comes as no surprise that he's getting hung.

I got to actually watch part of the trial with an Iraqi who worked as an interpreter on the base I was stationed at and just watching how animated he would get during the trial was insane. He would literally spit at his television and scream obscenities in Arabic whenever they would show Saddam on the screen, it was intense sitting there.

My point is that if this man and the few others that I had the chance to speak with are any indication of the general attitude of Iraqis, it is their collective will that is enacting Saddam to get hung. That's kinda really what democracy is about, do as the people will and if the people want to see him hung for his actions, whether it's ex post facto or not, so be it. We're not trying to create America Jr. in Iraq, so let them make their own decisions.
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Reply 19 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 07:10:29 AM)
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Quoted from Snook:
This girl from one of my classes had this to say:

"He's getting hanged! Isn't that exciting?!"

Stupid cunt.


It's not exciting?
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Reply 20 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 11:04:35 AM)
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Quote:
No they just funded him because he gave Iran the old invasion. So they gave him goods, services, weapons and turned a blind eye to the kurds cause no one cares about the kurds.

That was Reagan, mostly. Back then, according to the US state dept, the Iraq government (i.e. Saddam) was legitimate. In fact, they made it sound like Iran was the aggressor:
The United States finds the present Iranian regime's intransigent refusal to deviate from its avowed objective of eliminating the legitimate government of neighboring Iraq to be inconsistent with the accepted norms of behavior among nations and the moral and religious basis which it claims (declaration issued on March 3rd 1984).

Cute stuff, uh? Reagan should've been hanged, too. But then again, most if not all heads of state should be at the very least rotting in some jail.
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Reply 21 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 02:09:14 PM)
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Quoted from HK:
Quote:
No they just funded him because he gave Iran the old invasion. So they gave him goods, services, weapons and turned a blind eye to the kurds cause no one cares about the kurds.

That was Reagan, mostly. Back then, according to the US state dept, the Iraq government (i.e. Saddam) was legitimate. In fact, they made it sound like Iran was the aggressor:
The United States finds the present Iranian regime's intransigent refusal to deviate from its avowed objective of eliminating the legitimate government of neighboring Iraq to be inconsistent with the accepted norms of behavior among nations and the moral and religious basis which it claims (declaration issued on March 3rd 1984).

Cute stuff, uh? Reagan should've been hanged, too. But then again, most if not all heads of state should be at the very least rotting in some jail.


I meant U.S Govt' Reagan. Reagan, Kissinger, Bush heck alot of American politicans should be brought forth before the hague but will that ever happen. Not bloody likely.
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Reply 22 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 03:59:44 PM)
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I'm just surprised that I agree with Vissario. Even if it's just a lil' bit.

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This reply was last edited on 11-08-06 04:24:39 PM by Dante.
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Reply 23 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 04:22:23 PM)
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Just re-read your post and I just wanted to comment on one thing I noticed.
Quoted from visuXio:
"democratically elected President" of Iraq.
If you knew anything about Iraqi history, you'd know that this is utter bullshit.

Hussein's rise to power in Iraq was more related to the overthrow and assassination of a man by the name of General Qassim, who ironically only came to power by leading a revolt and assassination of Iraq's prior King Faisal II, whom Hussein's Baath party had tried to overthrow two years prior to Qassim's successful assassination. Upon the overthrown of Qassim, the Baath party rose to power in Iraq and Hussein ended up becoming the Vice President a few years later, the only claim you can make to saying that he was democratically elected. This is where it becomes interesting.

Hussein used his position of power by appointing friends and family to high ranking positions to gain nepotic power within the government. By 1979, the actual elected President of Iraq, President Bakr, actually a relative of Hussein's, resigned under the pressure that Hussein had sewn throughout the previous six years as Vice President.

From there it wasn't difficult for Hussein to remain in power, seeing as how he ran virtually unopposed for fear of, you know, torture and death. In many cases, any legitimate opponent of Hussein mysteriously died, rendering whatever support they had garnered hopeless to oppose Hussein and his party.

Basically, democracy died when Hussein came to power, seeing as how you can't really claim to be a democracy when whatever voice of dissent is present in your nation is silenced immediately.
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Reply 24 of 67 (Originally posted on: 11-08-06 06:11:27 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
If you knew anything about Iraqi history, you'd know that this is utter bullshit.



And if you had bothered to notice the "quotation marks" around the fragment you quoted, you may have caught the jest of it.

Quoted from Sunny:
So he's being charged with crimes under a government that replaced it's prior government and courts - his prior government and courts.


He is being tried for crimes he committed not under the current regime's jurisdiction, but during his own tenure as the de facto leader of Iraq. Sorry, but most fair governments don't try "criminals" of other nations just because they happen to be residing in their country at the time.
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