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What do you think of suicide?
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Cowardly and/or Selfish 11 votes, 34.375%
Potentially the only alternative for some people 15 votes, 46.875%
Other: specify 6 votes, 18.75%
Totals: 32 votes, 103.058%
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abused
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(Originally posted on: 10-16-06 12:11:46 AM)
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Is suicide always a bad thing? In what cases can it be considered a viable alternative to life, if any.

If someone is so unhappy with their life that every day is filled with only negatives, why force them to live?

If someone is apathetic to the point where they are unwilling or unwanting to put the effort into daily living, why force them into a life of misery?

I'm not talking from a legality perspective, but do you beleive suicide is a legitimate choice for some people? Do you look down upon people who have attempted it, who want it, or who have done it?

Is everyone potentially able to be a functioning and/or happy member of society, and if not, should those people be forced to live in a world they do not want to live in.

I'm extremely interested in hearing some opinions on this topic.
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Reply 1 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-16-06 12:44:55 AM)
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there was an episode of ER a couple years back where a young girl needed a life-saving organ transplant, and the waiting list was too long. her dad was a perfect match so he went out back and shot himself so that his daughter could have his. that's an example of a noble suicide.
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Reply 2 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-16-06 12:08:50 PM)
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Yeah but the girl would be fucked up for the rest of the life enabled by his 'noble suicide'...Imagine the guilt.

I think teminally ill people should have the right to end their own lives without the state getting in the way.

Useless little atoms are burning all the bridges
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Reply 3 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-16-06 12:20:37 PM)
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Quoted from SnoXqueene:
Yeah but the girl would be fucked up for the rest of the life enabled by his 'noble suicide'...Imagine the guilt.

would that be any different some heroic character taking the bullet in your stead? it's tragic but the act is still selfless.
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Reply 4 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-16-06 10:02:45 PM)
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I feel taking ones own life perfectly acceptable. Life is meaningless anyways. More people should commit suicide.
ôWas der Tod der Elf einmal bedeuten wird, verm÷gen heute nur wenige zu ahnen Ś noch weniger kann ich darŘber schreiben. Wir stehen mitten in einer grossen Zeitenwende. Was wir alle durchmachen sind ihre Geburtswehen. Alles scheint negativ Ś und einmal wird dann doch Neues and Grosses geboren werden....ö

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Reply 5 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-17-06 01:09:39 AM)
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Quoted from cunterhoXen:
Quoted from SnoXqueene:
Yeah but the girl would be fucked up for the rest of the life enabled by his 'noble suicide'...Imagine the guilt.

would that be any different some heroic character taking the bullet in your stead? it's tragic but the act is still selfless.


....if your father suicides to keep you alive it's not the same as if someone is taking a bullet, that act is still murder on the part of the person SHOOTING the gun...whereas if your father hasnt discussed it with you prior and goes out and shoots himself..yay you're alive but you must live knowing you caused your father's death, that the rest of your family must do without his presence, etc..like I said, the guilt would be overwhelming even tho you'd be alive and sure, amazed that your dad would do such a thing for you..but there'd be a lot of fucked up feelings too.

Useless little atoms are burning all the bridges
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Reply 6 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-17-06 01:42:57 AM)
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Yes, but in the end she'd still be alive.

Can you imagine being her father and knowing you could save her, but instead--watch her die? The guilt there would also be tremendous.

This subject hits close to home for me. A couple of weeks ago, someone very close to me committed suicide. I wouldn't say it was an act of selfishness or cowardice. It's thought it was more of a spur of the moment thing. He'd been on anti-depressants for years, took too many, ran out and couldn't fill his prescription for another couple of weeks, and he just completely crashed.

He was the least selfish person I've ever known.

However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.
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Reply 7 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-17-06 08:49:32 PM)
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Quote:
However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.


WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday; so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?

If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?
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Reply 8 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-18-06 12:46:43 AM)
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Quoted from visuXio:
Quote:
However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.


WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday; so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?

If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?


Because in many cases the reason that someone does not think they should live is due to a checmical inmbalance in the brain that can be cured by one pill a day. I am not talking about emo fuckers, I am talking about clinical depression.
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Reply 9 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-18-06 01:01:03 AM)
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Quoted from Nickolati:
Quoted from visuXio:
Quote:
However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.


WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday; so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?

If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?


Because in many cases the reason that someone does not think they should live is due to a checmical inmbalance in the brain that can be cured by one pill a day. I am not talking about emo fuckers, I am talking about clinical depression.

Then you run into the problem that modern societies face with the medicalization of problems. They think a pill will cure anything.
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Reply 10 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-18-06 05:29:00 AM)
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Quoted from visuXio:
Quote:
However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.


WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday; so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?

If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?

They have the right, but it would still be very selfish of them. See the difference?
đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 11 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-18-06 06:42:01 PM)
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Quote:
I am talking about clinical depression.


If they want to cure themselves, more power too them, but why should you have a right to force treatments upon them if they don't wish to be cured?

Quote:
but it would still be very selfish of them.


Why is it selfish to live the life you want to live?
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Reply 12 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-19-06 12:36:26 AM)
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Quoted from visuXio:
If they want to cure themselves, more power too them, but why should you have a right to force treatments upon them if they don't wish to be cured?


I don't think someone with clinical depression and wishes to die will want to be cured in that state of mind. If they are put on the right medication and still wish to do so then their decision should be respected.
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Reply 13 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-19-06 12:43:47 AM)
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Quoted from visuXio:

WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday;


First of all, "draw the ire" =/= equating something with being selfish.

Quote:
so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?


Three things.

1) It specifically targets anybody who gives even the tiniest bit of a shit about you (granted, this may not apply in your specific case), and 2) death is one of the hardest things to cope with. So you're not only specifically harming people you supposedly love, you're harming them all simultaneously and all as much as you possibly could, relative to what someone has invested in you, and you're doing it intentionally.

3) Once it's done, it's done. You can't go back and make it up to people. There is no redemption.

Quote:
If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?


They don't and shouldn't. That is, however, completely irrelevant--like most of your post.
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Reply 14 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-30-06 02:00:19 PM)
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Quoted from Nickolati:
Quoted from visuXio:
Quote:
However, if someone purposely caused that kind of pain to the people they love.. well, it's probably one of the more selfish things a person could ever do.


WE have the right to ruin our lives in nearly every way imaginable and do things which would draw the ire of moralists such as yourself everyday; so, what exactly makes suicide any more selfish or unacceptable than, say, going to school to get a job to become rich?

If a person decides that it is their time to go, why should any other person have the right to decide if they don't?


Because in many cases the reason that someone does not think they should live is due to a checmical inmbalance in the brain that can be cured by one pill a day. I am not talking about emo fuckers, I am talking about clinical depression.


Sorry, but clinical depression is not cured by pills alone. They help, but they are not the cure.

I think we as our own people should have the right to take our lives if we want to. Some people say it is cowardly and selfish, but surely so is wanting someone to stay alive and miserable just because you'd feel bad if they offed themselves.
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Reply 15 of 52 (Originally posted on: 10-30-06 05:56:49 PM)
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Why kill your body, why not kill the mind and start all over i'm a serial-killer :)
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Reply 16 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-11-06 06:07:08 AM)
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I've lost close family members, friends, classmates and had friends lose immediate family members to suicide, and I will never, ever be convinced it is anything more than the most selfish act a human being can inflict on his or her loved ones.

I know everyone I lost to suicide suffered from under-treated mental illness, but their inability to recognize it, to get over their pride and seek proper treatment... not to mention their inability to consider the people who depended on them... boils my blood.

I urge anyone who ever feels suicidal or continuously depressed for more than two-weeks to take it seriously and get treatment, but I refuse to let shame about therapy serve as a scapegoat for suicide.
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Reply 17 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-11-06 09:33:27 AM)
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I think suicide is acceptable in certain situations; for example if people are terminally ill, cripled or otherwise physically impaired then if they would prefer to die than live on in pain/discomfort.
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Reply 18 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-11-06 11:09:31 AM)
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Quote:
I know everyone I lost to suicide suffered from under-treated mental illness, but their inability to recognize it, to get over their pride and seek proper treatment... not to mention their inability to consider the people who depended on them... boils my blood.


You know what makes my blood boil?

People who in their arrogant splendor think that they can dictate to other people how they should live their lives.

You are no different than Christian evangelicals and Muslim extremists who preach all day about how other people should live their lives according to their dogma. And when people refuse to abide by those "obligations" people like you have assigned to them, those religious zealots lynch or stone them, and you will make due with slandering them.

You know what is more self, PopRocks? It is thinking for one moment that you, and only you, have the right to decide how other human beings should exist.
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Reply 19 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-11-06 11:51:43 AM)
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Watch it, vissario. You're really pushing things a bit too much this once.

She said nothing of the sort. Nothing about deciding how others should live. Read it again, and don't be such a troll:
Quote:
I know everyone I lost to suicide suffered from under-treated mental illness, but their inability to recognize it, to get over their pride and seek proper treatment... not to mention their inability to consider the people who depended on them... boils my blood.

đonne onwŠcne­ eft wineleas guma, gesih­ him biforan fealwe wegas, ba■ian brimfuglas, brŠdan fe■ra, hreosan hrim ond snaw hagle gemenged. Ůonne beo­ ■y hefigran heortan benne, sare Šfter swŠsne. Sorg bi­ geniwad ■onne maga gemynd mod geondhweorfe­, grete­ gliwstafum, georne geondsceawa­ secga geseldan; swimma­ oft on weg. Fleotendra fer­ no ■Šr fela bringe­ cu­ra cwidegiedda.
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Reply 20 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-11-06 03:11:29 PM)
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Quoted from visuXio:

You know what makes my blood boil?

People who in their arrogant splendor think that they can dictate to other people how they should live their lives.

[...]

You know what is more self, PopRocks? It is thinking for one moment that you, and only you, have the right to decide how other human beings should exist.


I want people to live their lives in whatever way they need to in order to stay alive.

Suicide is not a "life choice" it's just giving up.

I have felt pain, and grief, and depression, and hoplessness, but with therapy and life changes I found ways to deal with all of these without inflicting them on the people who care about me enough to actually try and make my life better.
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Reply 21 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-12-06 07:45:58 AM)
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I'm fairly libertarian so if people want to off themselves that's their perogative. Just don't expect any sympathy from me. That said, many suicides seem to be "permanent solutions to temporary problems," and it's difficult to respect such a person in death.
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Reply 22 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-15-06 11:06:40 PM)
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So why not say that it's only ok for the terminally ill? Better to pass away peacefully with your family around, and have a chance to say what you want to than to hold on for a long time, suffer, and then die suddenly, alone, and without saying what you need to.

Just my 2ó


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Reply 23 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-16-06 10:13:54 PM)
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Quote:
I want people to live their lives in whatever way they need to in order to stay alive.

Suicide is not a "life choice" it's just giving up.

I have felt pain, and grief, and depression, and hoplessness, but with therapy and life changes I found ways to deal with all of these without inflicting them on the people who care about me enough to actually try and make my life better.


I'm pretty sure when he said 'tell people to live their life' he meant 'dictate to people what actions they should undertake'.
ôWas der Tod der Elf einmal bedeuten wird, verm÷gen heute nur wenige zu ahnen Ś noch weniger kann ich darŘber schreiben. Wir stehen mitten in einer grossen Zeitenwende. Was wir alle durchmachen sind ihre Geburtswehen. Alles scheint negativ Ś und einmal wird dann doch Neues and Grosses geboren werden....ö

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Reply 24 of 52 (Originally posted on: 11-16-06 10:34:34 PM)
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure when he said 'tell people to live their life' he meant 'dictate to people what actions they should undertake'.


It doesn't matter if she did misconstrue me, she and everyone like her will always be the same.

For you see, Bon, they, in their righteous might, believe they, not the individual, are the ones who should make all of the important decisions for us before we have even decided what is facing us. On both sides of the aisle they lurk, signing into action frivolous drug laws which punish recreational users will rewarding S. American drug cartels with windfall profits. They are the ones who sign into action laws which tell people when they can and can't smoke, where they may or may not be allowed to live, and even when it is "appropriate" for them to die a 'natural' death. It simply disgusts me that any other human being would be pompous and so self-contrived as to think that they, not the person in question, know that that person should instead stuff themselves with pills and spend tax-payer dollars on rehabilitation programs to extend the loathsome existence which they so eagerly, and rightfully, have a natural right to end.

Do they think they are morally superior to the rabble? Indeed, they must think they are gods amongst men; moral paragons to be followed, worshiped, and ultimately thrown out for the next one.
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