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(Originally posted on: 09-04-06 10:28:24 PM)
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Now, now, I have heard all of those ugly, Shaw-wearing middle-eastern chicks go on rants against George W. Bush and affirm to the rest of the world that Islam is a religion of peace, but, they are all filthy liars who should be caste into the deepest chasm of Hell.

The sins of any religion's practitioners aside, Islam is one of the only major world religions which, according to its scripture, promotes the most barbarous, terrible, and inhumane practices in the name of Allah and the faith. According to the Koran, their holy text, "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

I don't get it; why is the Western world so fixated on exalting Islam as some peaceful, happy-go-lucky religion of devout and harmless women when, in fact, it is the easily the most militant, aggressive, and expansionist religion which literally (pun intended) justifies any type of brutality in the name of their God and faith?

Should we not be reacting to these barbarians with equally barbaric measures, or have we, in the West, lost our penis and no longer wish to destroy a people who are hell-bent on destroying us both because their leaders say so and because their religion condones it?
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Reply 1 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 10:45:45 PM)
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47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.


vs

Quote:
8:8 And it shall be, when ye have taken the city, that ye shall set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the LORD shall ye do. See, I have commanded you.

8:22 And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.
(8:22-26) "All that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand."
Joshua and his army, per God's instructions, slaughter "all the inhabitants of Ai ... so that they let none of them remain or escape."
How many has God killed?
8:23 And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua.
8:24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword.
8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.




Yeah, only Islam is a violent religon. Yep.

for a source of both:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
"Poets say science takes away from the beauty of the stars— mere globs of gas atoms. Nothing is 'mere'. I too can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? The vastness of the heavens stretches my imagination— stuck on this carousel my little eye can catch one-million-year-old light. A vast pattern— of which I am a part... What is the pattern or the meaning or the why? It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little more about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it. Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent."
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool."
"You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing —that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something."
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt."
All by R. Feynman.
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Reply 2 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 10:49:32 PM)
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Ancient religious preach messages that come into conflict with modern human rights, news at 11.
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Reply 3 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:04:15 PM)
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This is silly. Like Christanity and Judism do not spawn people who are very fundamentalist and hate filled. Just because certain Muslims like to chop off heads and kill people doesnt mean they speak for everyone. We dont all assume Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell speak for ALL Christians.

Why not do your history research,many people through out time has used Religion in some form or another to back their agendas in persuing war.

Who says we are right, im sure I would like to remove someones head if I was being carpet bombed everyday or getting shot at.

Saying Islam is a religion of hate is like saying all Jews control the media (quiet bon), all priests rape boys etc.

Enough Christians are expansionist and murderous. Fuck how many cultures were wiped out in the name of "God and Jesus". The concept behind exalting Islam is to teach people about Islam and that it isnt full of mad bombers bent on revenge. Considering most people in western culture are more excited about fucking american idol and pop culture than learning something thing useful...

How is a group of Crazy Islamic militants any different from any other jackass who took up arms in the name of religion. You cant group them all into the same pot. Considring the bible should be rated R for violence and nudity.
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Reply 4 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:05:01 PM)
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Yeah, only Islam is a violent religon. Yep.



I think there is a big difference between mandated brutality, pillaging, and conquest in the name of Allah against any unbeliever and God commanding the Israelites to take back their homeland against people whom God specified could be attacked, once again, in the name of retaking the land which was theirs.

But you know, Muslims are just cuddly, peace-loving hippies who haven't done wrong.

Seriously, tell me where in the Bible God or Jesus commands Christians to go out and cut the head off any person just because they are unbelievers.
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Reply 5 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:12:50 PM)
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Like Christanity and Judism do not spawn people who are very fundamentalist and hate filled.


Tangent argument.

Does Christianity and Judaism themselves inspire people to start up hate-filled Ku Klux Klan rallies, or do people masquerading as followers or misinterpreting scripture for their own personal gain or vendetta use religion to justify their own barbarity.

Seriously, I saw this irrelevant argument coming up a mile away.

Quote:
Why not do your history research,many people through out time has used Religion in some form or another to back their agendas in persuing war.


Let me tell you again; JUST BECAUSE A FOLLOWER OF CHRISTIANITY USED IT TO JUSTIFY HIS OWN PERSONAL CONQUEST FOR GAIN DOES NOT MEAN THE RELIGION ITSELF IS FOUNDED ON THE PRECEPT OF WARS AND KILLING AND CONQUEST AGAINST UNBELIEVERS BECAUSE THEY ARE UNBELIEVERS.

Quote:
The concept behind exalting Islam is to teach people about Islam and that it isnt full of mad bombers bent on revenge.


That itself is a farce more akin to the idea that Jews control the media. Seriously, if you think Muslims are such peaceful and benign people, go there and tell them you are an atheist and I'm sure they will be ready and willing to present your decapitated body on the 5 o'clock news. Their religion dictates that you are an infidel, and subsequently, since some see you are a hostile force in the world, they are justified in their bible to go out and cut your head off for the greater glory of Allah you ignoramus
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Reply 6 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:21:34 PM)
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This is so beyond stupid it is almost not even worth answering to. You just basically gave every canned response I have ever heard any dumb hick around here say in response to Islam. IF0 might as well just close the thread now since the pointless baiting and flame war will soon happen.
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Reply 7 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:21:39 PM)
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no it's not; don't post

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Reply 8 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:24:11 PM)
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This is so beyond stupid it is almost not even worth answering to. You just basically gave every canned response I have ever heard any dumb hick around here say in response to Islam. IF0 might as well just close the thread now since the pointless baiting and flame war will soon happen.


Rofl, since you can't respond to any of the points which you, AND ONLY YOU, brought up, you run away like a little bitch, call me a loser, and demand that IFO close my thread down?

You, my good sir, have been PWNED
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Reply 9 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:31:24 PM)
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I don't agree that its stupid.

As far as the major religions go, the Christian bible is pretty tame on hatred and violence. The whole point of Christs message was one of love however there are a few quotes in there that can be interpreted the wrong way and used as justification for violence. I never read the whole koran, though I will be soon, it looks like its similar in nature to the old testament. Though I thought that these violent video games and movies had done a good job of decensitizing me to violence, I could barely stand to get through the old testament. It is that gruesome and violent. At their core though, this is how I see them. Islam and Judaism both center around a tribal diety created to unite one group of people, and seperate themselves from the rest, and justify their military expansions, brutality, and beliefs of superiority. Christianity was centered around a more universal god, distinct from the tribal Hebrew God but later the church unified the two. At its very essence Jesus message was that of love. Islam, which is a mixture of both christianity and judaism has its moments of preaching love as in Jesus's message, and moments of preaching hate, apparently a lot of it. If I get a chance later in the week I'll get into these books with a little more detail. I don't belong to any of these religions, but I love to study them.
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Reply 10 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:32:06 PM)
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I have met lots of Muslims who do not want to chop off everyones head. Yeah yeah so the koran says kill the believer, you can get the same tripe in the bible.

And yeah judeo-christian leaders do encourage lots of foolish right winged behaviour. Hardly has to do with being owned, its the fact you have no idea what you are going on about and instead have resorted to I CANT DEBATE UNLESS I TYPE LIKE THIS JUST LIKE SAM JACKSON CANT ACT UNLESS HE SCREAMS.

There are plenty terrort based groups in isreal encouraged by Jewish leaders, just like there are many very militant sects of Christanity who act out. SADLY enough the nice happy,shiny, puppy holding nice religious people dont make the 6 oclock news. Its the story about how 30 people got killed and someone got kidnapped in the middle east today, and some other Islamic Militant group wants to kill America.
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Reply 11 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:36:47 PM)
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We kiss Islam's ass because the Islamic world sits on a ton of freakin oil. As long as we are hopeless oil addicts, we will keep kissing Islam's ass.
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Reply 12 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:37:30 PM)
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Quote:
you can get the same tripe in the bible.



Great smart guy, SHOW ME WHERE IT IS.

Quote:
And yeah judeo-christian leaders do encourage lots of foolish right winged behaviour. Hardly has to do with being owned, its the fact you have no idea what you are going on about and instead have resorted to I CANT DEBATE UNLESS I TYPE LIKE THIS JUST LIKE SAM JACKSON CANT ACT UNLESS HE SCREAMS.

There are plenty terrort based groups in isreal encouraged by Jewish leaders, just like there are many very militant sects of Christanity who act out. SADLY enough the nice happy,shiny, puppy holding nice religious people dont make the 6 oclock news. Its the story about how 30 people got killed and someone got kidnapped in the middle east today, and some other Islamic MIlitant group wants to kill America


Can you read?

Didn't you catch that lengthy explanation that you can't judge a faith to be violent or not based on what its corrupt demagogues tell their impressionable followers to do to gain power and wealth? Just because some people choose to misinterpret the scriptures or blatantly ignore them for personal gain does not mean the faith set out to accomplish that. Seriously, try reading and understanding next time.
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Reply 13 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:40:13 PM)
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The argument is not about whether Muslims are good or bad. Only the most ignorant of people would accuse all muslims of being terrorits or by nature hateful people. I've worked with so many muslims over the years, as one would expect some have been good, some bad, some smart and some idiots, some extremely religious and some didnt care the slightest, just like every other group of people. The argument is about whether or not the holy books preach hate. That is the argument were having right?
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Reply 14 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:40:53 PM)
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We kiss Islam's ass because the Islamic world sits on a ton of freakin oil. As long as we are hopeless oil addicts, we will keep kissing Islam's ass.


I still don't see why the Western world and China doesn't utilize its obviously superior weapons and strategies and repopulate the region after wiping it clean of those backwards people and faiths of theirs.

It's not like they have really contributed anything to this world of ours except a barbarous religion and fascist ideology based on hate and Allah.
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Reply 15 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:43:33 PM)
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The argument is about whether or not the holy books preach hate. That is the argument were having right?


Exactly; that and why the West tolerates a religion which means it so much harm by a matter of policy, not just circumstance and need.

You don't keep a rabid dog alive in your neighborhood because it may not harm you in the future.
STFU, biatch
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Reply 16 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:45:32 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Now, now, I have heard all of those ugly, Shaw-wearing middle-eastern chicks go on rants against George W. Bush and affirm to the rest of the world that Islam is a religion of peace, but, they are all filthy liars who should be caste into the deepest chasm of Hell.


stop trolling
Quote:

The sins of any religion's practitioners aside, Islam is one of the only major world religions which,

i like how you use 'one of' without any reason here to conceal an obvious falsehood with the guise of ambiguity. stop trolling
Quote:
according to its scripture, promotes the most barbarous, terrible, and inhumane practices in the name of Allah and the faith.


no, no other religion decrees abominable actions in the name of Allah. astute. stop trolling
Quote:
According to the Koran, their holy text, "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)


it's obvious to everyone on this forum that the wide body of islam's believers do not consider this canon. if your criticism is against the Quran, let it be so. but if you're extending hellfire and protestant recivilization to people who happen to read the quran and believe some of the things in it, then you should make an argument why they should be punished for believing words adjacent to other words that are wicked. if this is not obvious to you, you need to get out or get smart. if this is obvious to you, then stop trolling.
Quote:

I don't get it; why is the Western world so fixated on exalting Islam as some peaceful, happy-go-lucky religion of devout and harmless women when, in fact, it is the easily the most militant, aggressive, and expansionist religion which literally (pun intended) justifies any type of brutality in the name of their God and faith?



there's no meaning in the statements 'hate-filled religion' or 'peaceful happy-go-lucky religion.' do those adjectives belong to believers? the holy texts? the social circumstances of areas in which the religion is prevalent? the actions of past believers? if the Western World is so fixated on propagating these meaningless phrases, then you haven't presented meaningful ones and are taking the position opposite of absurdity, which is absurdity again. stop trolling.
Quote:

Should we not be reacting to these barbarians with equally barbaric measures, or have we, in the West, lost our penis and no longer wish to destroy a people who are hell-bent on destroying us both because their leaders say so and because their religion condones it?


religion can't condone anything because it's not an actor or a consistent body of ideas. stop trolling.

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Reply 17 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:46:05 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
I still don't see why the Western world and China doesn't utilize its obviously superior weapons and strategies and repopulate the region after wiping it clean of those backwards people and faiths of theirs.

It's not like they have really contributed anything to this world of ours except a barbarous religion and fascist ideology based on hate and Allah.
...And the basis of our modern mathmatics. And astrology. And navigation. And engineering.


But forget about that.
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Reply 18 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:50:03 PM)
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Quote:
I still don't see why the Western world and China doesn't utilize its obviously superior weapons and strategies and repopulate the region after wiping it clean of those backwards people and faiths of theirs.

China is more dangerous than the middle east, bro. The middle east is more of a brick wall we keep kicking, and hurting ourselves from. It's our actions in the west that cause their reactions, most of the time.
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Reply 19 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:53:10 PM)
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Christianity: A Religion of Pedophilia
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Reply 20 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:55:41 PM)
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Quoted from Dante:
Christianity: A Religion of Pedophilia


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Reply 21 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-04-06 11:56:00 PM)
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conceal an obvious falsehood


Seriously, what is the falsehood?

Quote:
no other religion decrees abominable actions in the name of Allah


As long as we're getting into semantics; Allah is interchangeable with "God" and "faith" is construed to any other major or minor world religion.

Quote:
it's obvious to everyone on this forum that the wide body of islam's believers do not consider this canon.


A wide majority of Muslims don't consider the Quran canon? How well informed!

Quote:
there's no meaning in the statements 'hate-filled religion' or 'peaceful happy-go-lucky religion.' do those adjectives belong to believers? the holy texts? the social circumstances of areas in which the religion is prevalent? the actions of past believers?


So, if believers don't consider their actions to be "hate filled" and "evil", they aren't evil or wrong in any way?

I guess everyone should have their own faith then and believe in whatever morality they wish to Robert.

Quote:
religion can't condone anything because it's not an actor or a consistent body of ideas.


I'm pretty sure I was referring to the people who follow that religion smart guy.

Quote:
Christianity: A Religion of Pedophilia


Nice one, but we are talking about Islam, not other faiths.
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Reply 22 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-05-06 12:04:07 AM)
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I'm not going to go for a point-by-point clusterfuck with you because it always proves fruitless with your ad hominem attacks, your emotional arguments, and your army of straw men.

However, I will say that Christianity never came onto the scene as a peaceful religion. The same argument extends to Islam.
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Reply 23 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-05-06 12:18:26 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:


Seriously, what is the falsehood?



why don't you tell me: what does 'one of the only' mean in that sentence?

Quote:

As long as we're getting into semantics; Allah is interchangeable with "God" and "faith" is construed to any other major or minor world religion.


we're getting into the fact that what you say is so hobbled by misinformation, misnomer, and a lack of specific, correct language that you are transmitting no meaning.

Quote:

A wide majority of Muslims don't consider the Quran canon? How well informed!


or i might have been referring to the passage you quoted, which is what a sentence following a quotation refers to when you're not trying to scare away the crows of intellectual integrity with a haybag effigy

Quote:

So, if believers don't consider their actions to be "hate filled" and "evil", they aren't evil or wrong in any way?


so if i say something you say i said something completely different? you're calling a religion hate filled and evil--do those adjectives have any meaning when stuck to the noun religion? all this does is attach the concept of evil to the word Islam, rather than service our understanding by a consideration of the multiplicity of things that could actually be hate-filled or evil.

Quote:

I'm pretty sure I was referring to the people who follow that religion smart guy.


so you're distinguishing religion, which you've conceded defining, from a subset of people defined by their conception of the thing you can't define. ok, not-so-smart guy. also i thought i told you to stop trolling MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS

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Reply 24 of 65 (Originally posted on: 09-05-06 12:20:54 AM)
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Quoted from Robert:
we're getting into the fact that what you say is so hobbled by misinformation, misnomer, and a lack of specific, correct language that you are transmitting no meaning.
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Quoted from Skye:
I'm not going to go for a point-by-point clusterfuck with you because it always proves fruitless with your ad hominem attacks, your emotional arguments, and your army of straw men.
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