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etymxris
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(Originally posted on: 08-09-06 09:15:29 AM)
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Apparently some scientists in the UK are pushing to revise the drug rating system, ignoring current legal penalties and re-rating drugs just in terms of their negative impact to users and society.



I find a lot to agree with, though I think rating tobacco so high doesn't make any sense. I've long heard that LSD's long term effects are over-hyped. And I think alcohol wouldn't be legal at all if it weren't for its long history in Western culture. Some of these I just haven't heard of before, such as khat. And it would be nice if magic mushrooms were on the graph, it's mentioned as being a class A drug but they don't show it's relative harm.

Here is the article.

Anyway, I wondered what others here thought of these new ratings. I don't use drugs (or alcohol or tobacco) myself, but it seems plenty here do. I'm all for legalization, but I can't really speak with much authority when it comes to drugs' relative effects.
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Reply 1 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 10:04:47 AM)
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sounds about right.

won't happen though, and having e rated at that level would require monitored production, since most of street shit is going to be cut with a few bits higher up that chain.

and more recent evidence would probably place shrooms about where e is. i'm shocked ketamine is rated as being less damaging than alcohol, though. that sounds ridiculous. also debateable is the assertion that street meth is worse than cocaine.
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Reply 2 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:32:28 AM)
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Heroin must be the top one only because of its addictiveness and what it makes you do, since the drug itself doesn't harm you physichally

Of course if heroin wasn't illegal in the first place, these harmful effects of the addiction would be reduced drastically, and then maybe it wouldn't be rated as the most harmful anymore.
If they're ignoring the current laws, they should also ignore the harmful effects of the drugs that are caused by them being illegal.

In terms of harming the body each time you use them, solvents are fucking nasty, but i guess they're not likely enough to draw you into a heavy abuse to be higher in the list.

Quote:
and more recent evidence would probably place shrooms about where e is. i'm shocked ketamine is rated as being less damaging than alcohol, though. that sounds ridiculous. also debateable is the assertion that street meth is worse than cocaine.

Seems like amphetamines should be higher.
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Reply 3 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:36:14 AM)
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You think there isn't any physical harm involved with heroin? What about developing immunity to it and having to take more and more, without which you experience the sweating, shivers, cramps, eye and nose watering? What about weight loss and infection tendencies? Overdosing?
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Reply 4 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:41:08 AM)
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Quote:
hat about developing immunity to it and having to take more and more, without which you experience the sweating, shivers, cramps, eye and nose watering?

I wouldn't exactly call that physichal harm.

More like unpleasant physichal effects.

Quote:
What about weight loss and infection tendencies? Overdosing?

These are risks that would probably be drastically reduced if it wasn't illegal.

If you take this into account it would still be high on that list, of course, just because it's so highly addictive and makes people do anything to use it.
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Reply 5 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:42:57 AM)
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That happens with clean opiates such as morphine, too.
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Reply 6 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:51:58 AM)
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What happens?
Weight loss and overdosing?

I'm sure it does but not nearly as much or as badly as with street heroin.
Accidentally overdosing wouldn't be a big risk if it was clean, and your general health wouldn't deteriorate nearly as much if you didn't live on the street committing crimes for heroin.

Most of the other drugs on the list have much worse health-effects than this.

Of course heroin abuse might still make people homeless even if it was legal, but i'm assuming it would be cheaper and do it a lot less.

I'm just wondering if they overestimated heroins rating a bit because of the harmful effects that are caused by the fact that it's illegal.
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Reply 7 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 11:55:20 AM)
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Opiates are some of the most highly addictive substances around. Even in short hospital stays they have to be relatively conservative with the morphine. That's part of why they're so bad.

EDIT: Even clean opiates.
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Reply 8 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:00:17 PM)
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Seems to me, we have been through this before.
http://forums.interestingnonetheless.net/display.php?tid=1538&st=100
My post is about #10 down.
My views have not changed. If done in excess they will ALL destroy you. I would have to rate meth, and alcohol the top physically destructive. I can't count the people I have known that are dead from the use of drugs.
My advice [again] you fuck with drugs, they WILL fuck with you!
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Reply 9 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:01:05 PM)
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They'll also cause you to get banned from the computer.
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Reply 10 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:01:09 PM)
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I realize this, that's the main reason i still think it should be high in the harmfulness list.
Addictiveness is the main harmful quality of any of these drugs.

I'm just saying the addiction to pure opiates doesn't hurt your health nearly as much as abusing most other drugs.

I'm also not sure you can say heroin is very much more addictive than cocaine.
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Reply 11 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:17:11 PM)
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Addictiveness has to be taken into account, because as was said, stuff like freon is damaging as hell but not very addictive.

Meth is way too low and K is way too high. Google for some meth mouth pics to see what that drug does.

Also, nitrous, angel dust?

EDIT: I scanned through the report a little, apparently amphetamines and methamphetamines are different categories. Why meth isn't on this graph is a mystery.
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Reply 12 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:20:26 PM)
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Meth has a lot of side stuff too, like the chemical residue sticking around residences long after making it there, and it'll deteriorate your body and such breathing it in. Especially kids. It floats around a lot, too.
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[17:54] <vissario> are you black IFO?
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Reply 13 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:23:24 PM)
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Quote:
Also, nitrous, angel dust?

Nitrous oxide seems pretty harmless compared to most of these substances...
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Reply 14 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:29:42 PM)
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From the report:



The range of values was from 0 to 3 for each category, I believe.

Also, they said somewhere in there that any drug that could be taken intravenously got bonus harm points.
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Reply 15 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 12:44:28 PM)
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So alcohol has the 2nd highest social harm score. That's kind of incredible, but I guess not really surprising.
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[01:19] witty tirade: I'm the thin attractive one
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[17:54] <vissario> are you black IFO?
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Reply 16 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 01:07:56 PM)
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Interesting article. http://www.beattheheat.com/tips/inhalents.htm
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Reply 17 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 03:31:37 PM)
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As far as I know, ecstacy has different effects on different people. One person could take half a pill and be severely affected where another could take four or five and be less affected. I would think that would make it more dangerous, as you would be unaware of its potential effects at any given time.
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Reply 18 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 03:35:03 PM)
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Heroin having the highest physichal harm score seems sort of ridiculous.
The most physichally harmful things about it are overdoses and the spreading of diseases, both mainly caused by the fact that it's currently illegal.

And how do they put alcohol below benzos in physichal harm?

Quote:
Interesting article. http://www.beattheheat.com/tips/inhalents.htm

How is it interesting?

It looks like any other information warning kids about drugs.
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This reply was last edited on 08-09-06 03:41:50 PM by drahnier.
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Reply 19 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 03:44:47 PM)
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On the topic of funny anti-drug propaganda, there's always freevibe.

http://www.freevibe.com/

Sponsored by disney, i believe.

Edit: Hmm maybe taking the effects of it being illegal into account is correct, since heroin is in fact illegal and won't be legalized.
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This reply was last edited on 08-09-06 04:39:58 PM by drahnier.
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Reply 20 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 05:11:41 PM)
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Why does tobacco do more social harm than physical?
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Reply 21 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 05:20:31 PM)
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Quoted from Shady Delight:
Why does tobacco do more social harm than physical?

I think they factor medical costs into social harm. Tobacco puts you at great risk for lung cancer, and lung cancer is expensive, but I think it mostly happens to those over 50. I would put the social harm of tobacco way near the bottom. No matter how much you smoke, you'll still probably make it to 40 at least. Most of the other drugs will get you long before that. Of course they could also be influenced by the second hand smoke craze.

Though seeing tobacco as the third most addictive drug doesn't surprise me in the least.
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Reply 22 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 05:25:58 PM)
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Quote:
And how do they put alcohol below benzos in physichal harm?


Seriously what the hell is that?

How does benzodiazepines even harm you physichally at all?
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Reply 23 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 05:25:58 PM)
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Quoted from etymxris:
I would put the social harm of tobacco way near the bottom. No matter how much you smoke, you'll still probably make it to 40 at least. Most of the other drugs will get you long before that. Of course they could also be influenced by the second hand smoke craze.


Making it to 40 doesn't decrease the social cost in the form of medical costs. Lung cancer costs about the same at 70 as it does at 20. Making it to 40 is only indicative of a lower physical harm than drugs that kill you before then.

Quote:
How does benzodiazepines even harm you physichally at all?

If they are taking addiction into account, they are more addictive than alcohol.
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Reply 24 of 63 (Originally posted on: 08-09-06 05:31:11 PM)
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Quoted from emtilt:
Making it to 40 doesn't decrease the social cost in the form of medical costs. Lung cancer costs about the same at 70 as it does at 20. Making it to 40 is only indicative of a lower physical harm than drugs that kill you before then.

Well I don't know if it's fair to blame the cost of cancer treatment on tobacco. A heavy smoker is likely to die a costly death from lung cancer, but many people die from cancer and cancer is usually pretty costly. Also, if you die at 60 from lung cancer you don't cost nearly as much as if you had to spend your last few years in a nursing home. That's why I don't think it's fair to incorporate cancer costs that are incurred after 50 or 60 in most cases.
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