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mmac
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(Originally posted on: 07-27-06 04:40:48 PM)
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A quick summary of what's been going on recently, I'm sorry it's poorly written, but I'm really pissed off.

My unit has stop lossed me until December 31st, 2007 because they're going to Iraq (meaning I was supposed to get out on august 8th, but they're deploying so I have to stay in longer). They're going to Iraq, but I get to sit here in the rear detachment, pending a medical evaluation to see if I'm safe to deploy, or if I should be kicked out of the army. (I have bad asthma, my first year in Iraq it was fine, but during my second trip I ended up in the hospital once, and received breathing treatments)

For the last 4 months they have been telling me I would be able to go home on August 1st, in the last year I have only been home for 5 days for my grandma's funeral. In that time I saw my mom for a grand total of 3 hours.

Today they said that because I'm not deploying with them, I can't take leave. My family has already put in for vacation time, and we've been planning things to do for months now. Because I was pissed about this, 3 NCOs in my shop "mid level managers" were making fun of me, asking if it made my vagina hurt, and how could I be so stupid.

I'm thinking about going home anyways. If I go for less than 30 days I would probably only loose some rank, and maybe get some minor fines. If I go home for more than 30 days I get charged with desertion, and probably do some jail time.

I have seen my family for 5 days in the past fucking year, and while they tell me I will be able to take leave after the unit leaves they won't give me any dates.

I HATE THE ARMY
I HATE THE ARMY
I HATE THE ARMY

What should I do?
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Reply 1 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 04:43:13 PM)
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You are almost out, dude.


Suck it up, and wait it out.
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mmac
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Reply 2 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 04:46:44 PM)
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just because I'm being evaluated doesn't mean anything. They could decide that I'm safe to deploy, let me out in December of 2007, and then call me back IRR days after I get out... for a fourth deployment.
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Dante

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Reply 3 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 04:50:32 PM)
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Quoted from mmac:
just because I'm being evaluated doesn't mean anything. They could decide that I'm safe to deploy, let me out in December of 2007, and then call me back IRR days after I get out... for a fourth deployment.
Well huff and puff your way out, man. Make the asthma seen really shitty and bad.


Or shoot yourself in the foot.
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Reply 4 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 04:54:03 PM)
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if you're willing to take the risks, then you have already made your decision; however, you can (as Dante said) see if you can get out medically, or you could see if you can reschedule your meetings with your family.
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Reply 5 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:18:37 PM)
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See if you can get out because you're "unfit for service".

If that doesn't work, get the fuck out, but don't risk staying away for more than 30 days.

EDIT: You know, it's funny. Half my family (all the men) were in the army. I've never heard anyone talk about it favourably. Except my great-grandfather, he met his wife while fighting somewhere in the Ukraine (this was during WWII) and that was possibly the only thing from his army days that he talked about.

And yeah. What's the worst they can do to you? Lock you up for a few months? If you really hate it so much and you can't leave officially, go AWOL.
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Reply 6 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:26:58 PM)
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i'm always amused by the people that join the army and then act surprised when they're shipped off to war...
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Reply 7 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:37:04 PM)
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Alloy, dishonerable discharges follow you around for a long while.

And every male in my family was in the military except for me, 'cause I'm fat. But they all loved it. Just depends.
(Realistically, I just preferred to get multiple degrees early in life.)
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Reply 8 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:38:54 PM)
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Quoted from awkward jimmy:
i'm always amused by the people that join the army and then act surprised when they're shipped off to war...


I know, because you never fail to tell us about it. Even when it has nothing to do with the thread.
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Reply 9 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:43:14 PM)
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Quoted from IF0:
And every male in my family was in the military except for me, 'cause I'm fat. But they all loved it. Just depends.


By choice? Woah.

All my relatives were drafted.
Sul
mmac
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Reply 10 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 05:45:33 PM)
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Quoted from ice:
Quoted from awkward jimmy:
i'm always amused by the people that join the army and then act surprised when they're shipped off to war...


I know, because you never fail to tell us about it. Even when it has nothing to do with the thread.
No, the first two times were ok. If I was getting out in two weeks I would probably be speaking favorably about it.

Dishonorable Discharge= Felony ie no voting, or owning firearms. I would only stand the possibility of a Dishonorable Discharge if I was gone for an extended period of time.
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Reply 11 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 06:22:42 PM)
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man, i tell you what man

It shouldn't be that hard to get kicked out of the army, all you have to do is be a big enough freak
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Reply 12 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 06:26:25 PM)
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Two words: sexual abuse.
"Hwt, he on a tid e he inne bi, ne bi hrinen mid y storme s wintres; ac t bi an eagan bryhtm and t lste fc, ac he sona of wintre on one winter eft cyme hwt r foregange, oe hwt r fylige, we ne cunnen."
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Reply 13 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 07:27:38 PM)
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I recommend going out in a blaze of gunfire.
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Reply 14 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 07:39:15 PM)
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My friend wanted out of the army several years ago (before the stop-loss shit) and spoke to his sergeant or whatever. He was told the best way to get kicked out of the army was to go AWOL for 29 days and then return. So he did this, signed in on the last night, but they had no rooms for him. He came back the next day, the sign in sheets were mysteriously missing, and got in trouble. I don't remember the whole story but he ended up talking to his sergeant again and got some type of standard discharge that was neither honorable nor dishonorable. He lost his GI Bill but not his voting rights and served no jail time.

So if you were going to go AWOL, I'd leave yourself a buffer of a few days to make sure they have you on record as coming back and not deserting. I doubt they'd kick you out though with forces stretched as thin as they are.
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Reply 15 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 08:31:45 PM)
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DON'T DO IT.

I have a soldier that went AWOL on July 5th (never came back from the 4th of July weekend). I've been in contact with him, and I know everything going on with him right now as far as my batallion is concerned, he's going to fucking jail.

The army is pushing jail time for AWOL a lot harder now, it's not just some random thing my batallion is doing. They're also pushing harder for drug use (actual UCMJ instead of simple article 15s). Heavier punishments are now a directive from DOD, batallions pretty much have to follow along.

What you need to do is press on with your medical problems. "Develop" problems if need be (drinking, sleep issues, anger management, etc). Don't become a violent, sleepless drunk, just give the image of that. That will have you in behavioral health pretty quick if people are paying enough attention.

Social deviant? Become a barracks rat. Start giving the image that you are becoming manic depressive. If you do anything like this, prepare to be playing the part for a long fucking time, until they give you some sort of discharge.

Also, relax a little bit. You're on rear detatchment for now. You have time to work problems into the scheme of things. The best way to keep from deploying is to make people unsure of your capability to handle a weapon in a proper manner. Get a few people scared, and your commander should send you off for review with behavioral health. If you get stuck on pills, don't take them, flush 'em (unless you really want the effect of them).

Don't go AWOL, it's not worth it. Yeah, you'll be out sooner, but think about the long term consequences.

Look man, I've been there with the army. I damn near stayed in Canada when I went on my roadtrip back in November. I've been a complete fucking trainwreck mentally and physically for the past 9 months. I'm drinking myself to death here, and it doesn't help a bit. Hell, I even started smoking weed again in the hopes of failing a drug test to get the hell out of the army, before I actually started getting medical care for my back. I agree with you that it fucking sucks about being stop-lossed, I'm facing the possibilty of that also (I'm out Oct. 29th for terminal leave).

If you want to talk about it, call me, I'm sending you a PM with my cell number in it. Think about everything you have right now, then think about what will happen when the army cuts your pay, puts you in jail, and what that will look like on your resume when they eventually do kick you out for your AWOL stunt. Sure, you're stuck for now, but that doesn't mean you should inevitably hurt your future beyond your new ETS date.


Quoted from etymxris:
My friend wanted out of the army several years ago (before the stop-loss shit) and spoke to his sergeant or whatever. He was told the best way to get kicked out of the army was to go AWOL for 29 days and then return. So he did this, signed in on the last night, but they had no rooms for him. He came back the next day, the sign in sheets were mysteriously missing, and got in trouble. I don't remember the whole story but he ended up talking to his sergeant again and got some type of standard discharge that was neither honorable nor dishonorable. He lost his GI Bill but not his voting rights and served no jail time.

So if you were going to go AWOL, I'd leave yourself a buffer of a few days to make sure they have you on record as coming back and not deserting. I doubt they'd kick you out though with forces stretched as thin as they are.


Your friend got a General Discharge, likely for Failure To Adapt. The 29 day thing isn't going to get you any leverage these days. If you go AWOL now, they're more likely to slap cuffs on your wrists and let you rot in the Regional Correctional Facility awaiting your UCMJ court hearing, then back to the RCF to rot again until sentencing. This isn't the 90s anymore and we're at war with an army that doesn't want to go, but does so because they are obligated.

The soldier in my unit that is AWOL, who falls under me, well, he's going to jail. When I last talked with him, he said he'd be back on the 29th day of his AWOL. I had to write a sworn statement out with the details of what he told me, it wasn't fucking fun. I'm his shop foreman and I just helped send him up the river. The army isn't fucking around anymore. Failed drug test? Heavy UCMJ action, same thing for AWOL or even back-talking the wrong sergeant or officer these days.

Mmac, talk to ArtZilla, he can probably help advise you a bit as well. If you really need to talk about it, fuck man, give me a call, go see Jeff. Hell, go to your chaplain, that's what he's there for, and he can help speed up the process of a chapter or medical review.

Also, if you know a chick there at Fort Hood named Rebecca Cox, tell her Adam says she's a douche.
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This reply was last edited on 07-27-06 08:49:22 PM by Wandering Idiot.
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Reply 16 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 09:27:36 PM)
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Couldn't you just pretend that you're gay?

Would that be a dishonorable discharge? I doubt they could get away with firing a homosexual, and then having that person then be a felon...It's probably just a general discharge.

Research it, and if it looks safe, flirt with your commander.
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Reply 17 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 09:58:00 PM)
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Pretending you're gay and feigning illness are bad ways to try to get out of the army. Even if you are ill, I doubt the army would believe you or care even if they did. People have been in the news for shooting themselves or breaking their arm to try to get out. Results in jail time.
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Reply 18 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-27-06 11:13:30 PM)
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Pretending you're gay doesn't work as well these days as it did in the past. They pretty much need solid evidence to kick you out for it (obvious boyfriend, gay porn on the computer, etc, etc). Hitting on your commander would be considered fraternization on his behalf, or sexual harassment. To boot, if I remember reading in the Army Times right, congress is contemplating letting homosexuals serve in the military without segregation and strict policies against harassment of the gay soldiers. So, you can rule that idea out.

Honestly, the best thing to do in this situation is to keep on with the medical process. Talk to the chaplain about being depressed and they'll work with the commander to get him into behavioral health. Don't tell them that you're thinking about going AWOL though, that'll be a fast track to restriction to post and having NCOs come by your quarters checking on you constantly, or having to report to CQ/Staff Duty every hour or two until midnight and starting again at 0500 the next morning, for weeks on end.

Another option is called Conscientious Objector. There's a few websites around about it, more specifically Objector. Search Google and you'll come up with results.

Also, check with Iraq Veterans Against The War for more possible information and advice.

The odds of getting a Conscientious Objection discharge are extremely thin, that's why I suggest you go to your chaplain and talk with him about your "issues", hopefully resulting in some sort of behavioral health situation. That'll be a better, faster ticket out than even trying for a CO general discharge.

There's also the option of failing multiple PT tests and blatantly becoming overweight and hope for a field elimination flag which would result in a general discharge for failure to adapt to army standards. It's a way out, but not the easiest and it's doubtful that you'd get out that way because of the troop shortage.
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Reply 19 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 01:13:12 AM)
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Quoted from ice:
Quoted from awkward jimmy:
i'm always amused by the people that join the army and then act surprised when they're shipped off to war...


I know, because you never fail to tell us about it. Even when it has nothing to do with the thread.


it has everything to do with it. his unit is going to iraq. he didnt't want to go, so he tried to get out due to medical reasons, which have since caused him to be stop lossed. he doesn't get his leave now, and the fact that he's at home while the rest of his unit is in iraq (from what i understand) makes it hard for his "managers" to feel sympathy for him. i still want to know exactly what people expect when they sign their name on that dotted line.
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Reply 20 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 02:49:21 AM)
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Quoted from awkward jimmy:
it has everything to do with it. his unit is going to iraq. he didnt't want to go, so he tried to get out due to medical reasons, which have since caused him to be stop lossed.


Er, no. He's already been deployed, but has been stop-lossed because they are going to be deployed again right at the time that he was due to get out. The medical thing is what is preventing him from getting his leave.

I don't think it is unreasonable to want to get out of a commitment when you're at the end of the period you volunteered yourself for.
This reply was last edited on 07-28-06 11:31:56 AM by kayte.
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Reply 21 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 06:33:33 AM)
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/27/gaysmilitary.ap.ap/index.html
Quote:
Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Quote:
An eight-month Army investigation culminated in Copas' honorable discharge on January 30

"Hwt, he on a tid e he inne bi, ne bi hrinen mid y storme s wintres; ac t bi an eagan bryhtm and t lste fc, ac he sona of wintre on one winter eft cyme hwt r foregange, oe hwt r fylige, we ne cunnen."
"Lo, he, in the time that he is inside, is not touched by the storm of the winter, but that is an eye's winking and the least time, but he straightway comes back from winter into winter, what thereto may precede or what to it may follow, we do not know."
mmac
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Reply 22 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 08:11:50 AM)
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I got extended because of the deployment, I'm not going to Iraq because of the illness.
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Reply 23 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 08:17:34 AM)
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Listen to WI!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Conscientious Objection only works if you're not currently enlisted in the military. It only applies to those that are being involuntarily brought into the military, such as a draft.

Quoted from awkward jimmy:
people who join the military are dumb pieces of shit that the government has every right in the world to shit upon and mistreat for as long as their obligation remains. i think this because i have obviously never been in the military and regard myself in a higher esteem than everyone else because of this fact. the miniscule complaints of those proles that decided to join the military make me laugh, much like the tears of a young teenage girl who just had an abortion makes me laugh. seriously, no point in crying about the consequences of your actions, when you knew what they were going to be before you set out to do them. god, i am so awesome and i never make mistakes that i end up regretting later, because everything i do is well thought out in advance.
Can I please suck your cock?
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Reply 24 of 31 (Originally posted on: 07-28-06 08:32:22 AM)
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{Q}[from WI]DON'T DO IT
Listen to your peers, and by that I mean those who are military they won't steer you wrong. It's extremely difficult for a civilian to comprehend military life. Unless they have done jail time. Pretty much the same. Play the PTSD trump card....if you have seen action this is the best thing that can be done. If you can get a doctor to diagnose you with it, which is fairly easy to do, just google ptsd and claim the symptoms. Once you get that you can never be deployed again, and you will get a medical discharge with a pension.
This will be a Service Connected disability, and can never be taken away from you. Due to the American Disabilities Act you can absolutely Not be discriminated against for this, that is a Federal Law!
If you have Not seen action Call your Congressman, I swear to you once you get a politician involved the wheels of progress can not be stopped and you will have a favorable outcome. Take my word for this because not only have I experienced this, but I know many others that have.
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