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(Originally posted on: 05-02-03 08:26:18 AM)
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And then you see them on the Today show or some other lame "news" program whining about how they miss their kids blahblahblah.

Not only is it idiotic to join the army if you have kids or are planning on having kids, but it's also idiotic to whine about something you could have easily prevented.

I mean, Christ, we could go to war at anytime. I'd hope your children would be important to you than running off to "defend our freedoms.*"

* I use the term loosely, as only one war I remember has actually threatened our freedom.
Dr. Bashir: "I can't belive you're not pressing charges."
Garak: "Constable Odo and Captain Sisko expressed similar concerns but really doctor, there was no harm done."
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Reply 1 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 08:29:40 AM)
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What freedom?
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Reply 2 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 08:32:53 AM)
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Quoted from Smokey2003:
What freedom?


You know, those one freedoms? The ones the Government pays little attention to? The ones with boot-marks all over them?
Dr. Bashir: "I can't belive you're not pressing charges."
Garak: "Constable Odo and Captain Sisko expressed similar concerns but really doctor, there was no harm done."
Dr. Bashir: "They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle."
Garak: "Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos."
Dr. Bashir: "Garak, this isn't funny."
Garak: "I'm serious doctor. Thanks to your administrations, I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime."
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Reply 3 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 08:40:01 AM)
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Tax Deductions.
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Reply 4 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 08:52:14 AM)
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That's a good fucking question. Going off to be a soldier isn't the same as a white-collar job at the office. But someone has to do it...and it's not like the families aren't raised to understand why their parents do it. So meh...it's their lives.
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Reply 5 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 09:01:27 AM)
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Quoted from Cyanide:
That's a good fucking question. Going off to be a soldier isn't the same as a white-collar job at the office. But someone has to do it...and it's not like the families aren't raised to understand why their parents do it. So meh...it's their lives.


They're also affecting their children's lives. Who knows how long you could be away? Or if you might die? I hardly think "protecting our 'freedoms'" is worth the emotional trauma a child might endure.

"Dont worry, Timmy. Mommy is in heaven, with all the other people who joined the army for the college money."
Dr. Bashir: "I can't belive you're not pressing charges."
Garak: "Constable Odo and Captain Sisko expressed similar concerns but really doctor, there was no harm done."
Dr. Bashir: "They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle."
Garak: "Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos."
Dr. Bashir: "Garak, this isn't funny."
Garak: "I'm serious doctor. Thanks to your administrations, I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime."
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Reply 6 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 09:21:23 AM)
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While I agree with the fact that going on tv and bitching about it is stupid, 'emotional trauma' going a little far. I really can't recall *any* U.S. war that was about our freedom. We don't like to fight our own fights.
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Reply 7 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 09:30:11 AM)
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If a kid is, say, five or six years old, and mommy or daddy ships off to war, what do you think will happen to the kid?

He'll shrug it off and then go get a job?
Dr. Bashir: "I can't belive you're not pressing charges."
Garak: "Constable Odo and Captain Sisko expressed similar concerns but really doctor, there was no harm done."
Dr. Bashir: "They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle."
Garak: "Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos."
Dr. Bashir: "Garak, this isn't funny."
Garak: "I'm serious doctor. Thanks to your administrations, I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime."
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Reply 8 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 10:17:29 AM)
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One word: Money. Same reason why people get married and join the Army. You make a shitload of money if you have children or are married and in the Army. It's fuking insane.


And this belongs in ID.
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Reply 9 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 10:20:01 AM)
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Whoops, cross posted. From the other point of view, it's called being a Military Brat, and it's not such a bad life.

For one, you're intensely proud of your parent. It makes things clear when you're a kid---that's good. Usually you've been separated from your military parent for so long at a stretch that if news were to come of his death, everything would certainly change, but the other military wives and families would be right there to help your mom and keep the casseroles coming.

Plus, bases usually have a bowling alley and, you know. Hey, bowling.


But I do think any pussy who gets on TV and whines about missing their family ought to be sent the fuck home the hard way and let the real soldiers work.
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This reply was last edited on 05-02-03 10:25:58 AM by Mojo.
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Reply 10 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 10:48:37 AM)
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Quoted from Mojo:
But I do think any pussy who gets on TV and whines about missing their family ought to be sent the fuck home the hard way and let the real soldiers work.


I couldn't disagree with you more actually. These guys are going to miss their family, and I never have seen them whine not one of them, they've stated it as an honest fact. "I really miss my family". How you can descriminate them for that or even whining if that may be the case is beyond me. The use of the word pussy in this case, Mojo, you should be beaten for. There isn't a single soul that leaves boot camp a pussy. Most of them signed up for what they consider to be very good reasons, whether you guys do or not. And I'd be willing to bet everyone of them with children considers their service to their country to be a service to their children. Whether that is the reality of the situation or not, that's how they think, that's what they are in it for, and to put your life at risk for the sake of your children is love pure and simple, nothing more honorable than that. Ofcourse they miss their families, their human, why shouldn't they say so?
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Reply 11 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 11:30:00 AM)
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My pops was in the service....he's served over in 'nam and in the middle east during desert storm. I've also got several close friends who were stationed in Iraq. I'm insanely pround and thankful for all of them.

If you want to hate the events our armed forces are partaking in, by all means go right ahead...but it sickens me to see any ill will towards the men and women themselves


Also...

Sandamnit: Noticed while reading other messages that you have served...what is the pay like for married soldiers right now? Retirement pay isn't all that much, and my pops didn't exactly earn the "shitload" of money you speak of, and this was a 4 child family. From my experience as a military brat, money was not the reason people joined the service
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Reply 12 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 12:33:43 PM)
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Quoted from Mojo:
Whoops, cross posted. From the other point of view, it's called being a Military Brat, and it's not such a bad life.

For one, you're intensely proud of your parent. It makes things clear when you're a kid---that's good. Usually you've been separated from your military parent for so long at a stretch that if news were to come of his death, everything would certainly change, but the other military wives and families would be right there to help your mom and keep the casseroles coming.


ive had close friends who are 'military brats' and their lives are shit, because while their parent(s) arent serving in a war they are constantly moving around. never able to keep friends more than a couple years and always having to readujust and start everything over again.
when i turned 14 i started to smoke pot and i thought it fixed all my problums well it ended up kicking me out of three schools and since my last offance involved the cops i now have to explain to my mom and dad why they nned to take off work to attend court with me. about the time i was kicked out of a last chance school i had to give up weed and i went crazy and i tried to kill myself. so i ask you what problums did pot take care of?

smoking is sooooo stupid why would anyone do it?!?!? i mean the only thing it does to u is ruin your life!!!! So remember kids... "What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right." and remember HUGS NOT DRUGS!!!!!
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Reply 13 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 12:54:08 PM)
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Quoted from NNY:

ive had close friends who are 'military brats' and their lives are shit, because while their parent(s) arent serving in a war they are constantly moving around. never able to keep friends more than a couple years and always having to readujust and start everything over again.


I'd think that'd make them more diverse and that they'd grow having experienced and seen more than those who've lived in one town for 20+ years.
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Reply 14 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 01:05:17 PM)
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Quoted from PimpForALiving:
Quoted from NNY:

ive had close friends who are 'military brats' and their lives are shit, because while their parent(s) arent serving in a war they are constantly moving around. never able to keep friends more than a couple years and always having to readujust and start everything over again.


I'd think that'd make them more diverse and that they'd grow having experienced and seen more than those who've lived in one town for 20+ years.


That may be true in the long run, but at present they are miserable. They may not think their diversity was worth 20+ years of constant change. Most of them don't, I don't blame them.
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Reply 15 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 01:22:47 PM)
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Nope. I would have never chosen to stay static. I enjoyed a lot of the moving, and always (even as a child) appreciated that people who didn't move didn't see as much.

Yeah, I'm gonna stick with "pussy," Smokey. When you're a private citizen, you can say anything to any television camera you want, but when you're in uniform and on duty, the only thing you should be saying is "We support disarmament and will be here as long as it takes." With a big convincing, shit-eating smile. You go say stuff that's going to demoralize the other troops and make your Commander-in-Chief look like an asshole, and you deserve every bit of sand they pile on you when your commanding officer buries your ass under the brig.

Miss your family, fine. Write 'em every day. Just don't go complaining about how the war is inconvenient because it made you miss your toddler's first birthday.

Sorry we disagree on this point.
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Let us kiss then

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Reply 16 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 01:31:04 PM)
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Thing is everything you're saying aside from the bullshit "making your commander-and-cheife look like an asshole" (as is every one of them since JFK didn't do a good enough job of that themselves) line is based on your opinion and how you'd do things, and I would agree, personally. But if the army dude wants to say "I miss my family" there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be allowed too. Now if he is WHINING and actually complaining about being there and doing what hes doing, you're absolutely right, haven't seen that, don't really belive it happens too goddamn often. You miss your family, your family is probably watching you on TV your family probably wants to hear that. You can stick with "pussy" all you want, but you're using it incorrectly. We're talking about a soldier on national television expressing his love for his family, which is probably the first thing I'd do, given the fact that I could die at any time it's a point I'd want to get accross every chance I had. This soldier goes out there and does his job to the best of his ability, and gets called a pussy by you and some dude that can't stand the heat in alaska?

You have the freedome to express yourself in any manner you wish. Mojo, you're in radio, you take full advantage of that right, you live by that right, like most radio people you probably don't think you have ENOUGH of that right but this army guy just needs to shut up and do his job, because he's making GW look like a dick......HA!

Also you enjoyed moving around alot, good for you, if I could bake trust me you'd be the first with a cookie, but I can't bake and you can't speak for every military brat in the country.
This reply was last edited on 05-02-03 01:53:23 PM by Smokey.
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Reply 17 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 02:18:57 PM)
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Okay, place yourself for a moment in the regulation shoes of a combat officer in charge of, say, seven men.

While you're out in the desert, sitting on top of your tank, Peter Jennings or hell, Bob Slob or whomever comes by with a television camera.

"Excuse me, what do you all think of this war?" asks Reporter Bob.

Your driver says, "Well, I love America and want to protect her freedom against tyranny wherever it takes us."

Your navigator says, "I hate the desert. It's hot in the daytime and cold at night. I missed my baby girl's potty training. I don't understand what that slobbering idiot, George Bush, is doing and I don't think I should have to die for these stupid oilfields."

Now, as a commanding officer, it's up to you to make a decision, one which will be very swift in coming as soon as YOUR commanding officer sees the footage of YOUR guy with YOU standing over to the left beside the tank. This asshole's just ruined YOUR career, while Iraqui TV loops the footage day and night and they burn thirty more American flags on college campuses back home.

You're wrong in equating any of my belief system with my being in radio. While I'm all for free speech in all its glorious forms, I also believe that those who have access to the media must use it responsibly and not harmfully. Sometimes that means saying what NEEDS to be HEARD, not what YOU want to SAY.

My opinion is based wholly upon my own experiences. I never claimed to "speak for all military brats," but you shouldn't allow them to speak for me, either. People make the best of their situations, or they don't and remain mired in blaming their parents because they always had to move. Whatever, dude. Reading your other thread about taking responsibility for your life and getting past the blame-the-parents thing, I'm surprised at your response.


***edit again*** I love having friends in 31 different locations in America. It's especially cool now that so many of us are wired in and can email each other, although I kind of miss some of the drawings on the margins of various letters throughout the years. You learn to care about one or two people in every city, and to take their learning with you. One thing that children said to me in every town I can remember is, "You're so lucky, you get to move. I wish I could move. I've never lived anywhere else."
Marijn: Those final swaying moments,
where time draws its dying breath;

Let us kiss then

Eternity can run its course
in rapture everlasting.




This reply was last edited on 05-02-03 03:06:15 PM by Mojo.
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Reply 18 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 03:49:46 PM)
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Quoted from PimpForALiving:
Sandamnit: Noticed while reading other messages that you have served...what is the pay like for married soldiers right now? Retirement pay isn't all that much, and my pops didn't exactly earn the "shitload" of money you speak of, and this was a 4 child family. From my experience as a military brat, money was not the reason people joined the service
For a lot of people that I've encountered, they came into the military for the benefits and the money. The military provides just about everything you can imagine for every single aspect of your life, family, children, retirement, etc.

Your pay is based on your rank. Of course you're not going to make as much money as a private than you will as a Sergeant Major. Likewise, you're going to make more money as an officer than as an enlisted soldier.

Oh, and the "shitload" is in comparison to the amount of money that I make. People that are married that are of lower rank that I, make nearly twice my paycheck each month.
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Reply 19 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 04:17:00 PM)
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Reply 20 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 04:31:25 PM)
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Dimi, Dimi, Dimi. You forgot a hyphen! Don't you want to protect the US from tyranny?
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Reply 21 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-02-03 05:26:02 PM)
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Normally, Philip, they join BEFORE they have kids. Then, once they're trapped, they decide to have children.
    The Great Stories are the ones you have heard and want to hear again. The ones you can enter anywhere and inhabit comfortably. They don't decieve you with thrills and trick endings. They don't surprise you with the unforeseen. They are as familiar as the house you live in. Or the smell of your lover's skin. You know how they end, yet you listen as though you don't. In the way that although you know that one day you will die, you live as though you won't. In the Great Stories you know who lives, who dies, who finds love, who doesn't. And yet you want to know again.
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Reply 22 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-03-03 12:12:43 AM)
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Quoted from Mojo:
Okay, place yourself for a moment in the regulation shoes of a combat officer in charge of, say, seven men.

While you're out in the desert, sitting on top of your tank, Peter Jennings or hell, Bob Slob or whomever comes by with a television camera.

"Excuse me, what do you all think of this war?" asks Reporter Bob.

Your driver says, "Well, I love America and want to protect her freedom against tyranny wherever it takes us."

Your navigator says, "I hate the desert. It's hot in the daytime and cold at night. I missed my baby girl's potty training. I don't understand what that slobbering idiot, George Bush, is doing and I don't think I should have to die for these stupid oilfields."

Now, as a commanding officer, it's up to you to make a decision, one which will be very swift in coming as soon as YOUR commanding officer sees the footage of YOUR guy with YOU standing over to the left beside the tank. This asshole's just ruined YOUR career, while Iraqui TV loops the footage day and night and they burn thirty more American flags on college campuses back home.

You're wrong in equating any of my belief system with my being in radio. While I'm all for free speech in all its glorious forms, I also believe that those who have access to the media must use it responsibly and not harmfully. Sometimes that means saying what NEEDS to be HEARD, not what YOU want to SAY.


Yeah you are talking about a guy that criticises his president and whines about having to be at war when it was his decision to be there in the first place and in that case I agree with you, but that's not what we are talking about we are talking about a soldier saying "I miss my family". War is never going to look good whether its the right thing to be doing or not he isnt making anyone look bad by stating that fact. It isn't something that needs to be said, we all know they all miss their families, but it isn't something that is going to hurt ANYTHING by being said, I don't think the jackasss with a mic and a camera needs to be there in the first place anyway.

Quoted from Mojo:
My opinion is based wholly upon my own experiences. I never claimed to "speak for all military brats," but you shouldn't allow them to speak for me, either. People make the best of their situations, or they don't and remain mired in blaming their parents because they always had to move. Whatever, dude. Reading your other thread about taking responsibility for your life and getting past the blame-the-parents thing, I'm surprised at your response.


Maybe you aren't speaking for them but you sure make them look like pricks for being a little upset that they never got a chance to adapt to any of their surroundings. People who make the best of their situations, like you, should be admired for this, rewarded and applauded even. However if a kid has no choice but to move here and there and readjust constantly it is going to take some kind of toll on them for better or for worse. It's not so much blaming the parents (I don't see many military brats doing that either and don't think they should) as much as it is acknowledging that the situation sucks and maybe carrying a little grudge for the cards that have been dealt to you, not entirely healthy, but justified. I'm a bit surprised you'd throw that thread back at me as if it bares any relation to the subject here. If a military brat complained to me about their PARENTS I'd tear them a new asshole, my situation was far worse than any military brat story I've ever heard. I'm still not going to dismiss the mild complaints of anyone who has been dealt a raw hand in life. If I chalked everything up to my own experience I'd be a narrow minded and self involved fucknut that refuses to see things from anyone elses perspective. People are different, not everyone can be as brass balled as you and to look down on people who have a little bit of justifiable beef with a negative aspect of their personal lives, in my eyes, is a pretty pathetic act. This particular case is just one of those things I think if someone wants to complain about they are fully within their rights, and has nothing to do with blaming the parents.

"I also believe that those who have access to the media must use it responsibly and not harmfully." Right! Then start pointing your finger at Peter Jennings. Like I said a soldier that complains about the desert and the food they serve or whatever doesn't need to be there at all, but a soldier that misses his family is one in a million and by stating that as a simple fact on TV he causes absolutely no damage to the reputation of the service or his country.
This reply was last edited on 05-03-03 12:37:28 AM by Smokey.
old.jimmy
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Reply 23 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-03-03 12:36:03 AM)
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You know...some people may join the army and THEN have kids. It's not uncommon.
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Mojo
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Reply 24 of 29 (Originally posted on: 05-03-03 11:45:56 AM)
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As I stated two replies ago, Smokey, I'm sorry you disagree. However, a paragraph about my brass balls in reply is not likely to change my opinion. I would have liked to have discussed this with you, but I'm not prepared to employ emotion over logic and the firsthand experience you decry as the guidepost of pathetic fucknuts.

For the record, you can't have it both ways. Over 93% of the children of military parents attend/graduate college. Feel free to criticize a life of which you have only second-to-third hand, hearsay knowledge, but if you look a little closer at the facts and the success rates of those poor, suffering children who get dragged all over the globe at the mercy of the horrible American War Machine, you'll see that they have complete medical and dental benefits, attend (as an average) private schools more often than their civilian counterparts, have better, cheaper access to resources such as wholesale, designer, and nonseasonal food and produce, clothing, and electronic equipment, and are housed for little or no money in what is essentially a gated, crime-free community. Military officers' children are encouraged to participate in extracurricular learning, music instruction, sports (it all looks better on our college applications). We are TAUGHT that we are a better quality of people than civilians, in part because our family sacrifices a parent for the sake of having a strong national military, and in part because we're usually just NOT LIKE the local "rubes" (that's my dad's word, not my mom's). If someone's not actually telling us we're raised to be better, it's certainly the pervasive attitude, but trust me, there's almost always someone pointing out to us that we're being raised to be more successful people. Most of us "overcome" that hardship by getting over ourselves as we grow up and living perfectly productive lives among our civilian friends. We are also taught lifelong patriotism and gratitude for our nation; it's another thing which often separates us from our civilian peers. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, knowing the people in the war actually makes you question war's need a lot less. If you're willing to observe your military-brat friends, you'll probably see that they behave differently with each other than they do around non-military people. I don't even know them and yes, I feel free saying that.

It's one thing to go on television and mention in passing that you'd like to see your family again, but going as far as to say that you miss them in an emotional display is pussy. If I saw my dad doing it, it would have embarrassed me to no end on base, and if it happened to some other kid on base, we'd know where to administer the wedgies.

Again, I won't apologize that we disagree---I've done that twice already---and I won't argue with someone who employs ad hominem as a first resort. I will leave you happily with your idealism, and consider that we are still friends despite our ingrained differences of opinion.

Warm regards, as always,
Mojo
Marijn: Those final swaying moments,
where time draws its dying breath;

Let us kiss then

Eternity can run its course
in rapture everlasting.




This reply was last edited on 05-03-03 01:48:02 PM by Mojo.
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