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Amphytrite
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(Originally posted on: 03-23-13 10:11:06 PM)
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My darling adopted state of South Carolina is considering the option of an open carry law, after significant public attention was drawn to it. (aka a bunch of old white men who think obama is taking their guns.) from what I gather, a law like this is unlikely to pass in SC, despite it being hardy GOP territory. But it's something other states are considering. Meanwhile, Georgia is in the process of passing a law that makes it easier for some mentally ill to get a gun permit.

My main worry, from the perspective of a public servant and government worker, is that there is no training or licensing required to open carry a handgun. Anyone who is not prohibited from getting a gun is allowed to carry one, and I have seen enough people who are in crisis, mentally ill but undiagnosed, or in some way disturbed to know that some people have the capability to do something very bad. (Especially since I just read Gone Girl.) A lot of gun advocates say that people like that are going to find a way no matter what, so why not arm yourself? Yeah, but for gun holding, open carry is like turning a four floor stairwell into an escalator. Suddenly everyone can and wants to go to the fourth floor. & when people get mad, who do they get mad at? The government.

I also worry--again as a public servant/government worker--that it is going to make some patrons, especially children & families. The people who come into the library where I work are a very odd cross-section of very rich conservatives (think southern charm/pearl necklaces/rich as fuck/golf), moderately rich liberal families, working poor, & homeless/in crisis. The city is surrounded by a largely rural area, lots of farms and open land, etc. and in general skews quite conservative. (One look at county government proves that.) So we have some hobnobbing conservatives who probably wouldn't carry, liberal families who definitely won't carry, the working poor and homeless who overall don't have the money to buy a gun, and then the angry conservatives who have the second amendment tattooed on their asses.

Last year the county sheriff urged all women to go out and get CWPs, in response to a sexual assault. Yes, because what I want to do on top of living my life is the sheriff office's job. I know that's not the point, but during his shtick the sheriff said that they couldn't do everything and it was up to us to take charge of our safety. So that was nice. omg yah rite fag lol

So while I think I might know what most of you will say, I'm still curious to know: what are your thoughts on open carry laws? Do you live in an open carry state? Have you ever seen anyone exercising their right to open carry a weapon?
Nickolati: i would have gone to the doctor, because I am pussy trapped in a lumberjack's body
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Reply 1 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-24-13 04:16:30 AM)
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Open carry is ridiculous. This is America, not fucking Yemen.
Muzta
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Reply 2 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-24-13 07:26:36 AM)
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Since most of the country alrady allows it I don't think it's going to start a crisis



Red = Prohibited
Green = Licensed
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Reply 3 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-24-13 12:26:39 PM)
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I think it's an atrociously stupid law. No one should need to have a gun. America is fucking stupid in that respect. But what do I know? I'm Canadian.
Amphytrite
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Reply 4 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-24-13 06:09:55 PM)
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Quoted from Muzta:
Since most of the country alrady allows it I don't think it's going to start a crisis

(map)

Red = Prohibited
Green = Licensed

thanks for that, wikpedia
Nickolati: i would have gone to the doctor, because I am pussy trapped in a lumberjack's body
Muzta
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Reply 5 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-24-13 06:30:38 PM)
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No problem
"Nice guys finish last, then we sleep in" - Duk's Sig
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Reply 6 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-25-13 10:01:06 AM)
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what does yellow mean? Drive faster through these states? (I already do)
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Reply 7 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-25-13 10:04:34 AM)
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In all honesty, I'm having trouble figuring out why US conservatives wish it were the 19th century again so badly.
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Reply 8 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-25-13 10:06:20 AM)
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Like every policy they back seems aimed at bringing about the return of that storied time. Open carry? It was good enough for Wyatt Erp and it worked out great for him! Union? More like TREASON. You're a Woman? Better get back in the kitchen! You're black? Well, haha. Guess what?
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Reply 9 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-26-13 05:11:39 AM)
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Quoted from Zack's Cell Phone:
Like every policy they back seems aimed at bringing about the return of that storied time. Open carry? It was good enough for Wyatt Erp and it worked out great for him! Union? More like TREASON. You're a Woman? Better get back in the kitchen! You're black? Well, haha. Guess what?


You're a moron.
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Reply 10 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-26-13 11:17:32 PM)
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Sick burn
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Reply 11 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-26-13 11:20:25 PM)
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Do you ever wish you werea cowboy viss instead of a first class semen?
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Reply 12 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-28-13 09:28:25 AM)
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Guns are rather frightening to someone who has never held or fired one. I feel like they should be even more frightening to someone who has. I also think you have to create a culture where people don't value their legal ability to carry guns above so many other aspects of cultural and community development. That's more than an unfair statement to make, because I haven't spent any time at all in the United States, let alone live there, but from what I'm able to read online, it seems that many people get very anxious over guns, but are less vocal about other topics. Guns seem to be a status thing for some people, and I think that's a weird cultural thing that has been in development primarily in the States. I don't know. I'm dumb.
how is this for a quote
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Reply 13 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-28-13 12:31:29 PM)
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Quote:
weird cultural thing


Nail on the head. You rarely hear normal conversations about guns in America, because we have, as you say, a weird cultural thing about them. Most conversations about them therefore get pretty weird too. Even if you don't have any strong feelings about them, you can't talk about them without recognizing this 'weird thing' and conducting your conversation with respect to it.
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Reply 14 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-28-13 04:55:07 PM)
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I clearly don't have much constructive to say on the topic except that we must look insane to people outside the country.

Personally, I don't see the big deal about owning and firing guns. When I ask enthusiasts I get all kinds of answers but nothing feels very satisfying to me.

It's becoming more common for me to hear people say things like "In case I need to change the government" or something along those lines which I guess is a very "Founding Fathers" sort of response. Of course, it makes less sense nowadays when the government you're hoping to keep in line with your 12gague shotgun happens to be armed with ICBMs and Apache helicopters.

It's also a scary thing to hear in a country with a (nominally) democratically elected government. I can only assume these people would be willing to shoot their neighbors if it came down to it.

Of course, I also get the impression that it's often symbolic. In that case it strikes me as a dangerous way to send a message to a party that isn't really listening anyway. Especially when you consider that there are other methods to get their attention that involve less potential homicide (voting, for instance).

To be fair, I don't really have a problem with people collecting guns because they like them or because they hunt or whatever. I personally don't like to hunt and wouldn't bring one in the house with the kids but I don't really care all that much if Bob down the street does. It becomes a problem when people want guns that are impractical for anything but murder. Nobody's hunting with a damn .45 handgun or an automatic rifle. Why do we have to push it past the point where its reasonable?
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Reply 15 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-29-13 07:50:20 PM)
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I grew up with guns and while I do have a healthly respect for them they do not terrify me. I would also like to will say this
The intent of the 2nd amendment is very clar
Quote:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


and eroding one of the fundamentally guaranteed rights through legislation is a terrible precedent to set (re-enforce?). The only way I could be made to support gun control is if t was enacted through a constitutional amendment.

*edit*

Actually allow me to amend that, I don't have much problem with universal background checks, and I don't have much of a problem with licencing "Militarized Rifles" similarly to how fully automatic weapons are licensed now. And hey if want argue that states have the right to "well regulate" their militias and some want to ban assault rifles I could even probably live with that. But federal weapons bans? Fuck off
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This reply was last edited on 03-30-13 02:14:37 PM by Muzta.
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Reply 16 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-30-13 01:51:37 PM)
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We really dropped the ball on that whole well regulated militia thing.
Amphytrite
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Reply 17 of 36 (Originally posted on: 03-31-13 11:26:44 AM)
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Quoted from Muzta:
and eroding one of the fundamentally guaranteed rights through legislation is a terrible precedent to set (re-enforce?)

It's kind of ironic that a lot of Republicans think that gun control is eroding the 2nd Amendment and they're all mad about that, and yet they are the ones who want to erode the 1st Amendment by requiring prayer and Bible lessons in public schools.

That's how it is here, anyway.
Quote:
Dimi and the weird cultural thing

Is it me or does America have a "weird cultural thing" about a lot of things? Like, we can't talk about anything in a truthful and honest manner because it's all weird and ends up being awkward because no one can discuss anything normally. It becomes personal almost immediately, no matter what the topic is. There aren't a lot of people who know how to separate fact from passion in America, and maybe that's why we're so screwed up.
Nickolati: i would have gone to the doctor, because I am pussy trapped in a lumberjack's body
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Reply 18 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-01-13 06:59:32 AM)
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Quote:
Is it me or does America have a "weird cultural thing" about a lot of things? Like, we can't talk about anything in a truthful and honest manner because it's all weird and ends up being awkward because no one can discuss anything normally. It becomes personal almost immediately, no matter what the topic is. There aren't a lot of people who know how to separate fact from passion in America, and maybe that's why we're so screwed up.

Yes, absolutely, but I think with most things it's just politically fueled bullshit which would fall away pretty easily if the two-party sporting event somehow collapsed tomorrow. While the gun debate is also politically fueled bullshit (in the extreme), I think the weird sensitivity to the issue is embedded much deeper.
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Reply 19 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-01-13 09:50:02 AM)
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I think there's a wide gap between our rhetoric and our actual discourse. I know a lot of people that I have disagreements with politically who I don't get into shouting matches with every time I see them.

Publically it's a different story. Which just goes back to the sports team thing I guess. It's the kind of thing that wouldn't be so bad if it didn't encourage politicians to get into these intractable positions and then pour concrete over their foxholes. (Wait, what was the metaphor I started with again?)
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Reply 20 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-01-13 11:49:52 AM)
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I carry my pistol in the car with me sometimes. Otherwise it's always locked up in the safe. Guns are fun, and they make me feel safer. The downside is when you're carrying, you automatically lose every argument, because there is no need to let someone calling you a shitsucker end up in a gunfight.
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Reply 21 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-01-13 12:19:33 PM)
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Quoted from Zack's Cell Phone:
I think there's a wide gap between our rhetoric and our actual discourse. I know a lot of people that I have disagreements with politically who I don't get into shouting matches with every time I see them.

Publically it's a different story. Which just goes back to the sports team thing I guess. It's the kind of thing that wouldn't be so bad if it didn't encourage politicians to get into these intractable positions and then pour concrete over their foxholes. (Wait, what was the metaphor I started with again?)


When people are faced with a real human conversation, they are usually faced with the option of either thinking logically and having a civil, rational conversation, or they can just shout like morons. Usually, real people in genuine conversations prefer not to shout like morons and will calm down and have the real conversation.

But when you're getting paid to make a spectacle of yourself and your position on TV, that's what you'll do. Especially considering that you couldn't have a reasonable and meaningful conversation in the 4 minute round-tables of cable news even if you wanted to.
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Reply 22 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-02-13 08:54:08 AM)
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Yeah, it's certainly a negative side effect of this obsession we have with sound bites in our news cycle. People with power saying crazy things makes the news which gets them recognition and votes.
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Reply 23 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-02-13 08:57:32 AM)
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Quoted from Tonto Goldstein:
I carry my pistol in the car with me sometimes. Otherwise it's always locked up in the safe. Guns are fun, and they make me feel safer. The downside is when you're carrying, you automatically lose every argument, because there is no need to let someone calling you a shitsucker end up in a gunfight.


You were in the military right? Are you comfortable with guns because of the military or were you exposed to them at a young age? Just curious.
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Reply 24 of 36 (Originally posted on: 04-02-13 09:44:55 AM)
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Quoted from Zack's Cell Phone:
Yeah, it's certainly a negative side effect of this obsession we have with sound bites in our news cycle. People with power saying crazy things makes the news which gets them recognition and votes.


I'd argue that corporate campaign donations get people recognition and votes and motivates the saying of crazy things and the media just regurgitates it all dutifully partly because it too is a slave to advertising money.

I think my point is to say that it's not a simple flaw in how the masses receive/demand news that makes 'crazy' people get attention and power. Rather, 'crazy' people get money, and the attention manufacturers (media) are given money from the same people to amplify the messages of the crazies they are funding. And that attention gives them recognition and votes. Essentially corporate money buys elections in this weird indirect way and completely corrupts the way we receive news in the process. And the fact that there are always two competing corporate-sponsored messages doesn't make the process any less bought.
This reply was last edited on 04-02-13 09:53:55 AM by D.
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