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Muzta
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(Originally posted on: 01-29-12 06:00:11 PM)
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Here is my personal conspiracy theory, I'm not sure I've every heard to proposed anywhere and I think you'll find it might account for some gaps.

1. American Airlines Flight 77 was struck by a surface to air missile and the subsequent wreckage struck the pentagon.

2. United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down as well
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Reply 1 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-29-12 06:28:10 PM)
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I've been hearing people say #2 since 9/11. Doesn't seem any more or less believable than the accepted story I guess.
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Reply 2 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-29-12 08:44:45 PM)
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You mean, the air force shot them down after they realized that terrorists had used planes to destroy the world trade centers?
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Reply 3 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 03:12:05 AM)
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I believe capitalism is a collaborative system of exploitation of the world's poor by the rich.
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Reply 4 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 03:16:25 AM)
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I believe organized religion was created as a form of social control.
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Reply 5 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 03:16:58 AM)
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I believe the US Senate was designed weaken the federal government and retard progress.
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Reply 6 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 09:37:30 AM)
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Except for the last one, those are all pretty true though Ice. I mean, it's really hard to argue otherwise. The last one... well I'm not sure i can say they did it on purpose but it sure as hell was the primary effect, yeah.
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Reply 7 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 11:09:13 AM)
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Quoted from loudpack masterchef:
I believe the US Senate was designed weaken the federal government and retard progress.


Change 'US Senate' to 'political parties' and you got yourself an accurate assessment right there.
Too lazy to reply properly.
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Reply 8 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 01:04:47 PM)
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I think the organized religion one is easily debunked, but only as a matter of semantics. Religion seems to have existed in almost every prehistoric community that we have any information of, and it continues to exist is almost every "uncivilized" peoples today (though there are a few 'naturally' agnostic peoples, which is pretty cool). Making up Gods and explanations for things appears to be in our nature. In those cultures priest is usually synonymous with doctor, so religion plays a vital role in pre-civilized society. I don't think it's hard to argue that with organized society comes the organization of it's most important elements - with civilization comes organized religion. Is it inevitably used as social control in basically every case? Yeah, but I would definitely shy away from saying that it is what it was created for.
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Reply 9 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 02:13:46 PM)
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Quoted from loudpack masterchef:
I believe capitalism is a collaborative system of exploitation of the world's poor by the rich.


This is one hell of a loaded statement!

on topic: I believe in aliens. edit: these aliens currently control our world for some unknown reason.
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Reply 10 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-30-12 03:25:15 PM)
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Radiolab had a discussion with a astrophysicist who was discussing the possibility of an infinite multiverse and made the claim that with some basic, realistic assumptions about the nature of existence, there is a higher probability that we live in a simulation than a naturally occurring universe. I don't want to make too many of his points for him because I don't remember and i'm hardly qualified to talk about it, but it was an interesting listen if you're interested.
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Reply 11 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-31-12 07:16:47 AM)
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Quote:
Radiolab had a discussion with a astrophysicist who was discussing the possibility of an infinite multiverse and made the claim that with some basic, realistic assumptions about the nature of existence, there is a higher probability that we live in a simulation than a naturally occurring universe. I don't want to make too many of his points for him because I don't remember and i'm hardly qualified to talk about it, but it was an interesting listen if you're interested.



Was it Machio Kaku? Don't listen to anything that guy says.

Quote:
on topic: I believe in aliens.


Seems reasonable.

Quote:
edit: these aliens currently control our world for some unknown reason.


wat
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Reply 12 of 33 (Originally posted on: 01-31-12 05:03:25 PM)
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Brian Greene http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-blog/2008/aug/12/the-multi-universes/
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Reply 13 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-01-12 07:32:14 PM)
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The idea of extraterrestrial lifeforms is easily acceptable given the size of the known universe. But the very argument that would allow for alien life also suggests firmly that the existence of aliens will never have any impact whatsoever on humanity. The universe is far too large for life (of any kind) NOT to occur elsewhere, and it's also far too large for any sort of contact or communication between us and them.


Even if you wanted to argue that the aliens would be "far more advanced" (which in itself is fairly nonsensical), the astronomical distances would be way too large to allow travel, even if they/us HAD the motivation to do so. One of the things about life/nature is that survival is the only goal, and spending obscene amounts of resources to "contact aliens" is ludicrous for any conceivable lifeforms.
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Reply 14 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-01-12 07:34:27 PM)
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Oh, and I think 9/11 conspiracy theories are too stupid to even warrant a response.
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Reply 15 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-01-12 09:52:13 PM)
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Quoted from too busy bitchin':
The idea of extraterrestrial lifeforms is easily acceptable given the size of the known universe. But the very argument that would allow for alien life also suggests firmly that the existence of aliens will never have any impact whatsoever on humanity. The universe is far too large for life (of any kind) NOT to occur elsewhere, and it's also far too large for any sort of contact or communication between us and them.


Even if you wanted to argue that the aliens would be "far more advanced" (which in itself is fairly nonsensical), the astronomical distances would be way too large to allow travel, even if they/us HAD the motivation to do so. One of the things about life/nature is that survival is the only goal, and spending obscene amounts of resources to "contact aliens" is ludicrous for any conceivable lifeforms.


Frankly dude that makes a lot of assumptions.

Like you said, the universe is too large for life to not occur elsewhere. Which means there are going to be a lot of different kinds of life out there, including lots who are so technologically advanced that their abilities will sound absurd to us. There should be creatures out there to who's mental capacities so exceed ours that our highest mathematical accomplishments will be as intuitive to them as integer addition is to us. There is no reason to think that the problems with long distance travel or communication that we see wouldn't be a trifling matter to someone much smarter, with a much better grasp on the workings of the universe.

The fact that you limit the goals of other lifeforms to "conceivable" lifeforms shows the incredibly limiting scope with which you're making this determination. Just because you can't see why a lifeform would want to explore or communicate based on the lifeforms you can observe on this planet or conjure up with our monkey brains, that doesn't mean that there aren't things out there which are completely inconceivable. Thanks to the giant universe I see no reason to believe why there wouldn't be countless things out there who's goals and existence could never be conceived by us.

Besides that, I don't agree with your conclusion at all. Life on earth which is driven by the desire to survive and reproduce has expanded to every unholy corner of the globe. As humans we're historically fascinated by frontiers and even today we have a conservative party candidate in one of the richest nations in the world promising a moon base to try and get votes from his wildly conservative demographic. At a time when the economy is the biggest subject of debate.
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Reply 16 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-02-12 04:52:22 AM)
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If alternate universes exist, and they can exist within layers even right next to us, then it is highly conceivable that there are aliens even next to me right now.

I'm not a scientist, but I do know some basic science. For instance, the human eye - it can only see so much of what is actually going on around me. The same could be said of all my senses, they have their limits. And this is every human, even really healthy ones. This is why we have made machines to monitor things we ourselves could not.

I've also heard of alternate realities, but I do know these are the ideas of quantum theorist, which means really, there isn't much proof behind it. BUT it is possible.

Just because someone tells me they KNOW something won't work doesn't mean it won't. I get that if I just jump off building I will die because I can't fly, but to assume all of what Tart has is just as much a strech as me assuming the opposite.

Also, Ztolk, why shouldn't I listen to Machio Kaku?
Ztolk
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Reply 17 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-02-12 05:51:13 AM)
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Quote:
I've also heard of alternate realities, but I do know these are the ideas of quantum theorist, which means really, there isn't much proof behind it. BUT it is possible.


So much wrong in that sentence! Quantum field theory is the most accurately experimentally verified theory in the history of science. If you could use it to predict the width of North America, you'd be off by about a hair's width. And it's not just random abstraction. That computer you're using? Requires a quantum mechanical understanding of how electron behave in silicon.

That being said, the "Many Worlds Interpretation" is much less science-fictiony than it sounds and is still just an interpretation: a way of looking at things in order to get insight. It's also different than what you talked about in your first paragraph, which sounds like a braneworld scenario.

Machio Kaku just tends to spout off trans-scientific nonsense using his credentials to make it sound authoritative, rather than explaining what is actually part of science and what isn't. However, he does think that aliens have visited us!
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Reply 18 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-03-12 06:08:32 AM)
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That's no reason not to listen to the guy, not everything has to be set in stone! I mean, why else be a theoretician?

From what I've understood of most quantum physics (which isn't a ton, more of its concept) is that we have a base way of measuring and operating, much like a computer program would. But with a change in the code, a whole new possibility of physics is possible (multiple universes) while also not abandoning other laws. Like flipping things on their head and so forth.

Well what I meant by proof is that it isn't really evident (naturally/conventionally observable), while the concepts have been proven mathematically/scientifically. Would that be all the way to look at it? I only ask because I know you and a couple others here are actually knowledgeable in these areas.
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Reply 19 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-03-12 08:19:46 AM)
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From what I've understood of something I obviously don't understand, you basically do all these things that I also don't really get, and they work or don't work in a way that's not entirely clear to me, but sometimes there is a possible difference, and interestingly meaningless metaphors can also be applied in order to give a perception of understanding where none clearly exists, like a dog barking up the wrong tree.
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Reply 20 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-03-12 09:12:05 AM)
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Quote:
That's no reason not to listen to the guy, not everything has to be set in stone! I mean, why else be a theoretician?


It's a reason not to believe him.

Granted I know nothing about what this guy has said, but Ztolk makes it sound like he's guessing at things which can't be determined. Everyone is of course welcome to do that, but a guess isn't validated by strong credentials so long as it is still a guess. So long as that is understood, I don't see why you can't listen to the guy. Especially if he teaches you real things in order to build a background for his case.
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Reply 21 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-03-12 02:32:59 PM)
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You being an ass won't keep me from trying to understand big things, ice :P
Muzta
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Reply 22 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-03-12 02:40:57 PM)
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Quoted from too busy bitchin':
Oh, and I think 9/11 conspiracy theories are too stupid to even warrant a response.


but you did respond to me

albiet with a different conspiracy theory
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Reply 23 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-26-12 05:13:36 PM)
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I responded to tell you that you are fucking stupid if you are even thinking about 9/11 still. It's been like 10+ years dawg...if it was a New World Order conspiracy than it failed.


I've heard homeless-junkie-Detroit-brothas spouting the same nonsense as you, Muzta. I think that if you are an intelligent person then the second you hear the same conspiracy you promote coming from a homeless junkie, you need to reconsider your beliefs.

The regime has changed (on both sides), and 9/11 has become a chapter in the next history textbook for grade 9s.
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Reply 24 of 33 (Originally posted on: 02-26-12 08:03:23 PM)
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A lot of significant stuff has changed since 2001, largely made possible because of 9/11...

edit: I'm not saying this is proof of conspiracy, i'm just saying that trying to say the opposite is proof of non-conspiracy doesn't really work.
This reply was last edited on 02-27-12 05:49:31 PM by D.
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