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atlas sighed (at me)
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I've been having fun making pretty basic programs in C. I've learned to use the terminal to compile them with gcc program.c -o program and run them with ./program. From a practical stand point, what are applications in which terminal has a big advantage over the GUI in modern linux distros?

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Servers.

I'm actually not a Linux geek though. I still use windows for my desktop machine because I'm not a gay nerd baby who beta tests software made by basement dwellers.

Most of my web servers are linux though because it's secure and free.

Shadowe

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Iirc the major advantage of the terminal was that using it forced you to actually learn about the OS instead of just clicking things, although I've heard it was good for most kinds of remote or batch jobs.

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I wanna wipe this laptop and install linux on it, but I just don't know which one. People crack jokes about Ubuntu, so I haven't gone in that direction.

I'm pretty technically inclined, but no programming skills. What's a good distro to pick? Debian?

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Really, I don't see what's so bad about Ubuntu. It's simple enough to install and use without being knowledgeable about the Terminal. I installed it well over a year ago (Intrepid Ibex I think) and it was really not until recently that I started to learn how to use the Terminal.

If you're going off of what those dweebs on /g/ say about it, I'd recommend finding other sources. Google for a linux group in your local community; you are almost guaranteed to find at least one.

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Quoted from a traffic cone:
I wanna wipe this laptop and install linux on it, but I just don't know which one. People crack jokes about Ubuntu, so I haven't gone in that direction.

I'm pretty technically inclined, but no programming skills. What's a good distro to pick? Debian?

Just start with Ubuntu. If you find a reason to not like it, try something else.

I use Ubuntu for running hard drive benchmarks and diagnostics. smartd is fucking great. All HDD apps for Windows either suck or cost money (and still suck).

FUCK. YOU. VISSARIO.

Shadowe

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The hate on ubuntu is because it's the closest thing to mainstream accessibility linux has, and because they give you the choice right during the initial install to "pollute" the precious FOSS experience with proprietary drivers and codecs so you can actually play mp3s and use your graphics card out of the box.

[edit]

This is why learning bash is awesome if you do any actual work on a linux machine.

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This reply was last edited on 12-17-10 01:56:45 PM by Shadowe.

atlas sighed (at me)
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Is there any merit to the argument that Gentoo is a good distro to learn how Linux works?

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If you want to learn how linux works then having to compile your own kernel in the command line during a GUI-less installation will absolutely give you the opportunity to do that.

You can also learn how chemistry works by trying to hang another four nitrogens off of 1,1′-Azobis-1,2,3-triazole.

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While you're in there Viss can you fix up a few bugs? I know you've been learning c lately. Thx.

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Quoted from Shadowe:
If you want to learn how linux works then having to compile your own kernel in the command line during a GUI-less installation will absolutely give you the opportunity to do that.

You can also learn how chemistry works by trying to hang another four nitrogens off of 1,1′-Azobis-1,2,3-triazole.

Point taken. I don't really know where'd I start with something like that. I guess that is the reason Ubuntu is so popular.

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Shadowe

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Ubuntu's popular for the exact same reason it's controversial, right there in the installation it gives you the option to install proprietary software. It "Just Works" almost as well as windows does (if not just as well these days) and with the software repository has the closest thing to an "App Market" I've seen on a PC.

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atlas sighed (at me)
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Are other Linux distros significantly harder to get to work on a PC?

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Shadowe

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Ubuntu and Gentoo are basically at opposite ends of the spectrum. One involves clicking next like three times and holds your hand through everything, one forces you to compile the kernel in the command line. Everything else falls somewhere between that, with the more mainstream distros being closer to a graphical installer.

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There are typically less help resources for Linux issues I've found. If everything goes alright you're cool but god help you if something doesn't work.

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In my new job I'm going to be forced to learn linux, which as of now I have 0 experience in. I have this old Unix for Dummies book and that's it. Does anyone have any reliable resources they used when just starting so I can try to get a leg up on this?

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Shadowe

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A bit late to noticing this but there's lifehacker's bash which at least lets you LOOK like a wizard while also helping get tedious work done faster.

Where you look for information really depends on what you need to do with linux. Just being a generic small office IT guy (or even doing generic office work on linux) is going to be a lot different than being Mr. Database for an entire district.

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It doesn't really matter any more. My entire team is getting the axe for being inneficient. INDIA, HO!

Shadowe

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I think inefficient is manager-speak for "not brown and needs to be paid more than seven cents a week."

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Quoted from Shadowe:
A bit late to noticing this but there's lifehacker's bash which at least lets you LOOK like a wizard while also helping get tedious work done faster.

Where you look for information really depends on what you need to do with linux. Just being a generic small office IT guy (or even doing generic office work on linux) is going to be a lot different than being Mr. Database for an entire district.

What I'm doing right now is just maintaining servers at a data center. I'll sit at my desk until a reboot request is submitted and then after pinging or sshing into the server and seeing if it's down or up - I'll get up, go into the server room, console into the server, try to see what's wrong with it. Usually I won't know. I can only really handle a simple reboot from an overload or a kernel panic, and that's just a bunch of memorized commands that have flooded into my head.

The idea is to be able to do just about everything at some point, not just navigate the Linux environment as a casual user, and nobody expects me to learn this stuff overnight. Unfortunately in order for this job to pay off I need to spend most of my off time grilling over it, and starting from the very bottom. I also need to focus on why's as well as how's and right now I know more about how to do things than why I'm doing them.

Nutshell: I don't know shit, and am way out of my depth. The next year is for me to spend trying to get to the surface...or at least close.

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to be honest it looks more intimidating than it is. Though the lack of good support is a pain in the ass.

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I think inefficient is manager-speak for "not brown and needs to be paid more than seven cents a week."

That's the gist of it. I do onsite support and [my company] decided to make everything remote. Apparently the cost savings were so great they are able to just ship people new laptops when their shit breaks and India can't fix it.

edit: decided anonimity to google searches is the best thing since I may be out of a job soon

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Quoted from Vagina Doctor:
to be honest it looks more intimidating than it is. Though the lack of good support is a pain in the ass.

Everybody says that. Luckily everyone I'm working with jumps at the opportunity to teach me stuff. I was afraid linux nerds would be more burdened by me.

I'm not lacking in support but after being overwhelmed like this, it's hard to find direction. That's why I'm in this thread, any resources anyone has for beginners would be much appreciated. I almost made a separate thread, but then I didn't. Not a lot of traffic here these days it seems.

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Shadowe

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Everybody thinks about the overburdened Bastard Operator From Hell stereotype but really if you're remotely attempting to learn most people will be happy to "indoctrinate" a new convert.

There's a couple things you can do that'll teach you a good bit or just come in handy:

If you don't have any spare machines or hard drives install cygwin and use bash instead of the command prompt on your personal computer. Force yourself to use a bash command line (mintty is a nice one) anytime you'll be doing something you'd have to do at work, or really any kind of "administrative" stuff like moving files or searching for things, and you'll start picking up the basics pretty quickly. I've got a little cheat sheet of common bash commands taped to my monitor, you might want something like this for work. There's a lot of documentation and cheat sheets out there, most should be more or less accurate.

If you can though the absolute best way to learn linux is to actually DO things. Since you seem to be a little more literate than me and have people willing to teach you things you might try hands on learning.

Hanlon's Razor: Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.

Smokey
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Fuck it. I just made a separate thread for my n00b bullshit.

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