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atlas sighed (at me)
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(Originally posted on: 05-29-09 07:32:29 PM)
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Being bored and unemployed, I did something that I haven't done in a fair three years; read up on national politics. This new face, Sonia Sotomayor, has been getting a lot of hoopla on CNN for being the first Hispanic woman to be seriously considered for the Supreme Court and, interested in her politics, I did a search on her. I managed to find this seemingly bland article about her general biography and, after scanning through it, something stood out; she is a member of the National Council of La Raza.

For you laymen out there, La Raza means "The Race" in Spanish, and if you know anything about its politics, that name pretty much sums up what the organization stands for. They are a lobbying group which advocates illegal immigration, secessionist political movements in the West for a "Hispanic homeland" (also related to the Aztlan movement), and, when they aren't busy breaking down established laws, special earmarks for districts with primarily Hispanic ethnic blocs.

The curious thing about all of this, though, is that no one on the Republican side has made any sort of stink about this fact. I mean, just look at the ease at which they could paint Sotomayor as a special-interests judge who would be obviously not objective to the word of the law when it comes to issues Hispanics stereotype themselves as being focused on. Wouldn't it seem that they should raise this point en masse on the air waves and in the blogosphere? But of course not, that would be racist, now wouldn't it?

But shift your gears here for a moment if you would; instead of nominating this woman, what if Obama nominated a middle-aged white male who was associated in the same way that she is to La Raza with, say, the Ku Klux Klan? What would the outcry be? I'm sure it would be so great that it would probably be political suicide even for the venerable Barrack Obama who can do no wrong.

But to my point, why is this so? Why has this organization not been mentioned at all in the general media when, if something like the KKK had been linked back to a white guy running for the same position, it would have been over before it started? Is there some type of double standard here when it comes to what racist ideologies are acceptable in polite political discourse? If there is, I would like to know what the difference between the two is.
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Reply 1 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 07:36:27 PM)
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nclr is like the naacp, not the kkk

are you just pasting shit from free republic or something
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Reply 2 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 07:39:47 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
nclr is like the naacp, not the kkk

are you just pasting shit from free republic or something


All three are pretty much keyed in on supporting their pet ethnic group in spite of the national agenda; what's the difference? Is it the perception given to you by the media?
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Reply 3 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 07:44:25 PM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quoted from antpocas:
nclr is like the naacp, not the kkk

are you just pasting shit from free republic or something


All three are pretty much keyed in on supporting their pet ethnic group in spite of the national agenda; what's the difference? Is it the perception given to you by the media?
obvious troll but i'll respond anyway

naacp and nclr want de facto equality, kkk wants slavery or genocide
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Reply 4 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 08:08:30 PM)
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la raza is completely equal to the KKK to me.
antpocas
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Reply 5 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 08:24:42 PM)
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Quoted from Stoffel:
la raza is completely equal to the KKK to me.
you do ww2 reenactments where you play the nazis
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Reply 6 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 08:38:23 PM)
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Your point being what? I also do renaissance reenactments where I play a protestant. Should I go out and kill catholics because of that?
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Reply 7 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-29-09 10:08:21 PM)
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This is fucking absurd, I did not make this thread to exchange childish broadsides with some callow moron who's modus operandi is to figure whether or not he can root you out as a Nazi.
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antpocas
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Reply 8 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 06:29:43 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:
This is fucking absurd, I did not make this thread to exchange childish broadsides with some callow moron who's modus operandi is to figure whether or not he can root you out as a Nazi.
lol

You made a post that said one of the biggest civil rights groups in the United States was pretty much the same as the KKK, something that's so incomprehensibly stupid and misinformed, and you did it as if you were an authority on the matter:
Quoted from vissario:

For you laymen out there, La Raza means "The Race" in Spanish, and if you know anything about its politics, that name pretty much sums up what the organization stands for. They are a lobbying group which advocates illegal immigration, secessionist political movements in the West for a "Hispanic homeland" (also related to the Aztlan movement), and, when they aren't busy breaking down established laws, special earmarks for districts with primarily Hispanic ethnic blocs.

Those are all lies.
Quoted from vissario:

The curious thing about all of this, though, is that no one on the Republican side has made any sort of stink about this fact. I mean, just look at the ease at which they could paint Sotomayor as a special-interests judge who would be obviously not objective to the word of the law when it comes to issues Hispanics stereotype themselves as being focused on. Wouldn't it seem that they should raise this point en masse on the air waves and in the blogosphere? But of course not, that would be racist, now wouldn't it?

They are doing that, they're falling all over themselves to paint her as a racist (although the elected republicans aren't doing it because she's a member of NCLR, but because of a something she said in 2001).

your entire goddamn post is filled with lies yet i'm the one who is juvenile for saying that maybe a white male who does nazi reenactments and compares the nclr to the kkk should shut the fuck up
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Reply 9 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 08:00:15 AM)
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If I had my way, every member of the KKK, la Raza, and the NAACP would be strung up from light posts all around the country. And I'd have all my nazi friends do it, since we are plotting an underground insurrection and all through our museum funded reenactments, right? We would call it the 'Night of the Broken Street Lamp Glass'.
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Reply 10 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 08:32:41 AM)
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NCLR has been known to actively campaign for driver's licenses, special stipends, and amnesty for illegal immigrants who cross over into the United States and attempt to live here. There's nothing new about this, and even though they deny it, it is a common secret that they would like to see their ranks swell with, you know it, HISPANICS because that is the only demographic bloc who is going to give them money and support. And why is this? Because, far from being a "civil rights group" interested in everyone's welfare, they are a special interest group who's only concern is benefit Hispanics in this country.

Seriously, don't be so fucking thick; "civil rights groups" like that and NAACP are little more than the KKK in their single-minded focus on benefiting the race of their choice.

Further, the NCLR has given both monetary and spoken support to MEchA, a secessionist organization composed of by students, laborers, and the intellectual cranks of the Hispanic community in the U.S. who envision a future where they eventually leave the United States to be annexed by Mexico. But this is probably an excellent idea, amirite antpocas?
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Reply 11 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 08:38:30 AM)
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Indeed, we should give all of the southwest back to mexico, because my ancestors stole it from them.
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Reply 12 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 08:53:32 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:
NCLR has been known to actively campaign for driver's licenses, special stipends, and amnesty for illegal immigrants who cross over into the United States and attempt to live here.

Nothing wrong with that.
Quoted from vissario:
There's nothing new about this, and even though they deny it, it is a common secret that they would like to see their ranks swell with, you know it, HISPANICS because that is the only demographic bloc who is going to give them money and support. And why is this? Because, far from being a "civil rights group" interested in everyone's welfare, they are a special interest group who's only concern is benefit Hispanics in this country.
Well, either that, or they have that "empathy" emotion thing.
Quoted from vissario:

Seriously, don't be so fucking thick; "civil rights groups" like that and NAACP are little more than the KKK in their single-minded focus on benefiting the race of their choice.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT

Quoted from vissario:

Further, the NCLR has given both monetary and spoken support to MEchA, a secessionist organization composed of by students, laborers, and the intellectual cranks of the Hispanic community in the U.S. who envision a future where they eventually leave the United States to be annexed by Mexico. But this is probably an excellent idea, amirite antpocas?
MEChA is little more than an activist student organization now.
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Reply 13 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 09:02:38 AM)
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So, Antpocas, if millions of illegal immigrants suddenly showed up from North Africa, you would have no problem feeding them, housing them, educating their children, and giving them all the civil rights you enjoy so that they can send half of their paycheck to their country of origin? Of, but of course you do! You're just some dumb college kid who doesn't work, lives with his parents, contributes nothing in the way of taxes to the country, and literally lives on a level not far above that of a bum in terms of what you give back to your society! Why should you care?

Quoted from antpocas:
Well, either that, or they have that "empathy" emotion thing.


Where's their empathy for white and black people?

Quoted from antpocas:
MEChA is little more than an activist student organization now.


No denials that it's a secessionist organization, eh?
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Reply 14 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 09:31:01 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:
So, Antpocas, if millions of illegal immigrants suddenly showed up from North Africa, you would have no problem feeding them, housing them, educating their children, and giving them all the civil rights you enjoy so that they can send half of their paycheck to their country of origin? Of, but of course you do!
Wrong. As long as they paid their taxes I would give no shit to what they do with their money. And yes, I would be for providing them with food, housing, healthcare, civil rights and education (although food and housing aren't free in Portugal unless you're really poor and, if I recall correctly, portuguese).

Quoted from vissario:
You're just some dumb college kid who doesn't work, lives with his parents, contributes nothing in the way of taxes to the country, and literally lives on a level not far above that of a bum in terms of what you give back to your society! Why should you care?
I'm getting an education so I can later give back to society.

Quoted from vissario:

Quoted from antpocas:
Well, either that, or they have that "empathy" emotion thing.


Where's their empathy for white and black people?
White people have no trouble at all immigrating to America, and they are not discriminated against. Black people have the NAACP.

Quoted from vissario:

Quoted from antpocas:
MEChA is little more than an activist student organization now.


No denials that it's a secessionist organization, eh?
It used to be one, yes. Keyword used. But if you want to talk about seceding, you should look at the governor of your goddamn state.
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Reply 15 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 09:34:01 AM)
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Quoted from Vissario:
So, Antpocas, if millions of illegal immigrants suddenly showed up from North Africa, you would have no problem feeding them, housing them, educating their children, and giving them all the civil rights you enjoy so that they can send half of their paycheck to their country of origin? Of, but of course you do! You're just some dumb college kid who doesn't work, lives with his parents, contributes nothing in the way of taxes to the country, and literally lives on a level not far above that of a bum in terms of what you give back to yoru society! Why should you care?


Personal accountability is paramount.

The older I get the more fiscally conservative I get. It is strange how all college kids with no responsibilities are quick to jump on the "help everyone" bandwagon. While I am quick to say that everyone can easily achieve whatever they want with hard work - it is the efforts of a war mongering profiteering government that has given me the ability to do so.

I would almost go as far to say that as a wealthy (not so sure anymore, considering China owns us and we are basically bleeding money "defending" the world from terrorism) it is our duty to bring as much aid to the rest of the world as possible.

While I would bitch about it every time I cashed a paycheck, (as I already do when I see social security taken out - it's not like I am personally going to benefit from that money) I ultimately wouldn't mind so much because I realize that the money is going to help those that are worse off than myself.
It is what it is...
This reply was last edited on 05-30-09 09:47:42 AM by Nickolati.
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Reply 16 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 10:05:00 AM)
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Quote:
I'm getting an education so I can later give back to society.

lol, and once it is your money that is disappearing, you will feel differently.
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Reply 17 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 10:34:15 AM)
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That's far too easy a stance to take: once its your money youll feel differently!


I really hate to break it to you, but not everyone puts as much emphasis on money and financial success as others do. I'm similar to antpocas in that I'm getting an education so I can go on to actually be a contributing member of society through becoming a professor, teaching, research, and so forth. I certainly don't speak for everyone here, but parts of my family and extended family are financially successful and for the most part, from my perspective all it does is bring to them added misery and frustration. Don't get me wrong, I'll make a very comfortable living for myself as I'm sure antpocas will as well; however, making the assumption that we'll be singing a different tune reveals more of your perspective on the role money plays in life than it does at actually predicting whether or not we'll suddenly become absorbed by our finances. If believing that helps you rationalize your own choices and perspectives in life then so be it, but just be aware that those words of warning have absolutely no weight whatsoever.
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Reply 18 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 11:03:42 AM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
I certainly don't speak for everyone here, but parts of my family and extended family are financially successful and for the most part, from my perspective all it does is bring to them added misery and frustration. Don't get me wrong, I'll make a very comfortable living for myself as I'm sure antpocas will as well; however, making the assumption that we'll be singing a different tune reveals more of your perspective on the role money plays in life than it does at actually predicting whether or not we'll suddenly become absorbed by our finances. If believing that helps you rationalize your own choices and perspectives in life then so be it, but just be aware that those words of warning have absolutely no weight whatsoever.





Also to address the OP

Quoted from Vissario:
But to my point, why is this so? Why has this organization not been mentioned at all in the general media when, if something like the KKK had been linked back to a white guy running for the same position, it would have been over before it started? Is there some type of double standard here when it comes to what racist ideologies are acceptable in polite political discourse? If there is, I would like to know what the difference between the two is.


The only difference between a terrorist and a revolutionist is perspective and what powers control the media and the government. You already know this Vissario. The KKK is considered evil because their crusade is to benefit what is considered the "majority" in the US. Downtrodden groups get away with it because they are a minority.
It is what it is...
This reply was last edited on 05-30-09 11:21:51 AM by Nickolati.
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Reply 19 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 11:39:33 AM)
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@ Sandamnit

Bullocks.

Antpocas espouses that philosophy because he himself is a recipient of it. As I said before, he doesn't work, he doesn't pay much in the way of taxes, and he lives with his parents while his school bills are covered by either the state or his family. To him, it only follows that in order to justify his own life, he must also be comfortable with accepting that people like him, ie immigrants too poor to move here by legal means and other minorities living under the weight of their forefather's goofs, should also get a free ride so to justify his lechery. He assumes that they deserve this help because he assumes that they are just like him; namely, that these minorities are the same young, ambitious individuals who want to benefit the social unit as a whole just like he claims to want to.

But they are not just like him. They are third-worlders who have come here to make a buck to send back to their families overseas. Their purpose in this system is to do a job that few, if any, want to because the pay is so horrendously low for it. Some of them choose to stay because the benefits of living in our nations are so absurdly high compared to their own; no warfare, perpetual economic growth, and, with citizenship, an unlimited smorgasbord of benefits that seems to have no end if only one reaches out to take them- or perhaps demand them.

Quoted from Nickolati:
The only difference between a terrorist and a revolutionist is perspective and what powers control the media and the government. You already know this Vissario. The KKK is considered evil because their crusade is to benefit what is considered the "majority" in the US. Downtrodden groups get away with it because they are a minority.


So in 2050, when I am considered an ethnic minority in the United States, will I be considered a revolutionary or simply a racist like these goons if I join the KKK?
A witty saying proves nothing - Voltaire
This reply was last edited on 05-30-09 11:47:06 AM by atlas sighed (at me).
antpocas
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Reply 20 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 12:17:38 PM)
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vissario, you really need to learn to accept that greed isn't what drives everyone. Also:
Quote:
Their purpose in this system is to do a job that few, if any, want to because the pay is so horrendously low for it

perhaps they should provide fair wages for people doing these jobs then you stupid shithead
Quote:
So in 2050, when I am considered an ethnic minority in the United States, will I be considered a revolutionary or simply a racist like these goons if I join the KKK?
lol, even if you are an ethnic minority, whitey will still rule the world. In Texas, white people are only a plurality, but they hold the majority of the executive and legislative seats. Also you haven't addressed Rick Perry's call for secession yet

NCLR and NAACP don't advocate discrimination, they fight for equality, which they do not have. The KKK wants segregated schools, more rights for white people than others (because they view white people are superior), and eventually a return to slavery or simply outright genocide.
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Reply 21 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 12:25:03 PM)
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Quoted from Vissario:
So in 2050, when I am considered an ethnic minority in the United States, will I be considered a revolutionary or simply a racist like these goons if I join the KKK?


Depends on how the media portrays KKK in 2050. LaRaza, The Black Panthers, and the KKK don't exactly have sterling reputations and are probably equally hated on their opposing side of the fence. I doubt many whites consider the KKK a group of revolutionist freedom fighters though. Their actions are much more derogatory. There is a difference between an anti establishment pipe bomb with random targets and a lynch mob.

The Black Panther party was formed due to oppression.
LaRaza was formed due to oppression.
The KKK was formed out of mutual hatred of blacks by white people.

P.S. I'm mixed and fairly represent both sides of my culture - so don't bring up the "you're biased" argument. It's moot.
It is what it is...
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Reply 22 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 12:28:35 PM)
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Double Post - delete please.
It is what it is...
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Reply 23 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 12:36:01 PM)
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Quote:
Seriously, don't be so fucking thick; "civil rights groups" like that and NAACP are little more than the KKK in their single-minded focus on benefiting the race of their choice.

The fact that you were so careful to word this in this way tells me you know exactly what the difference is.
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Reply 24 of 82 (Originally posted on: 05-30-09 12:42:00 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
That's far too easy a stance to take: once its your money youll feel differently!


I really hate to break it to you, but not everyone puts as much emphasis on money and financial success as others do. I'm similar to antpocas in that I'm getting an education so I can go on to actually be a contributing member of society through becoming a professor, teaching, research, and so forth. I certainly don't speak for everyone here, but parts of my family and extended family are financially successful and for the most part, from my perspective all it does is bring to them added misery and frustration. Don't get me wrong, I'll make a very comfortable living for myself as I'm sure antpocas will as well; however, making the assumption that we'll be singing a different tune reveals more of your perspective on the role money plays in life than it does at actually predicting whether or not we'll suddenly become absorbed by our finances. If believing that helps you rationalize your own choices and perspectives in life then so be it, but just be aware that those words of warning have absolutely no weight whatsoever.

I have little doubt that pocas will still feel it is his duty to give back to society and throw other peoples money away as long as it doesn't directly affect him. However, once it is his money that he no longer has control over, I'm sure he will rethink his belief that the government knows how to spend the money better than the person to worked for the money. We had a long discussion about this on chat the other night and he essentially ceded the point to me when I said I preferred to have control over what charity or helpful organization I put my money into.
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