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What Do You Believe?
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I believe in multiple Gods who each control certain aspects of the world, including a singular creator God. (Polytheist) Vote in poll to view results
I believe in a single all-powerful creator God who is active in our day-to-day lives. (Theist) Vote in poll to view results
I believe a powerful supreme being created the universe and has a plan, but is not active in our lives. (Deist) Vote in poll to view results
I don't know what to believe, I'm on the fence. (Agnostic) Vote in poll to view results
I do not believe in a god, supreme being, or anything of that nature. (Atheist) Vote in poll to view results
I believe in the underlying essence of all things in the universe. (Spiritualist) Vote in poll to view results
I believe aliens did it. (Comedy Raelian Option) Vote in poll to view results
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(Originally posted on: 05-26-09 05:42:22 PM)
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Nothing like a thread on religion to bring us together.

Let's discuss what the people of INTL believe in. Are you religious? What religion do subscribe to?

Myself I'm an atheist. I didn't grow up in a very religious household. My mother never took me to church and we didn't talk about god very much. She used to say she believe in a supreme being, not necessarily god. But popular culture is saturated with the Judeo-Christian mythology so I found myself believing in god from a young age. I didn't know jack squat about religion but I just assumed that if all the adults think god exists then he must because adults are smart. I would pray on occasion and think about heaven and hell.

But as I grew older I began to see through a lot of the fantasy surrounding religion. If god was all-powerful and benevolent, why would little kids get incurable cancer or be molested by priests? Not to mention the endless number of people killing each other in god's name. Instead of god creating man, man created god. I credit my turn-around also to my fascination with ancient mythology. I saw a trend in our gods as time went on. In the early days before we could explain things with science we needed gods to be the reason behind earthquakes, volcanoes, lightning and other spooky things. It was around the age of 13 that I finally decided that the gods of today are just leftover relics of humanity's early days when we scared, stupid primates with no way to explain why the next village was destroyed by a lava flow. Now that we can explain almost everything with science we only "need" gods to explain how the universe was created and what happens after we die. Jesus was just Zeus 2.0.

From the age of 13 to about age 18 I remained pretty much an agnostic leaning towards atheism. It was then I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. After that I became a commited atheist. I now believe religions are dangerous things which breed ignorance and fear. It enables weak-minded, fantasy-prone people to band together under a common banner. It gives them the conviction to murder, marginalize and oppress while fully believing that they are doing "god's work." People who, I believe, would otherwise be inclined to stay home and lead a quiet life. Instead they picket the funerals of gays, blow themselves up on crowded buses, wage wars against unbelievers and commit countless other atrocities.

Sure, humans are violent people. We don't need religions to give us a reason to kill or rape. But far more horrible things have been done under the banner of religion then by lone serial-killers or ordinary wackos.

And don't move this to serious discussions. I want this to be a lively discussion and SD will just muzzle it.
Nun: Sister Augustine believes in things that aren't real.
House: I thought that was a job requirement for you people.

Dr. House: Isn't it interesting... religious behaviour is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart.

Eve: Abortion is murder.
Dr. House: True. It's a life and you should end it.
Eve: Every life is sacred.
Dr. House: Come on. Talk to me. Don't quote me bumper stickers.
Eve: It's true.
Dr. House: It's meaningless.
Eve: It means that every life matters to God.
Dr. House: Not to me. Not to you. Judging by the number of natural disasters, not to God either.
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Reply 1 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 05:49:55 PM)
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Atheism is a dangerous religious movement which should be stomped out for the good of future generations to come.
A witty saying proves nothing - Voltaire
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Reply 2 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:10:19 PM)
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The same things said about religion could be said about any group of people committed to any ideology. Religion has just had thousands of years to perfect it.

That said, I have no problem with religion or those that practice it, as long as they don't mind me wanting them killed for their beliefs.
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Reply 3 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:15:40 PM)
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Quoted from Stoffel:
The same things said about religion could be said about any group of people committed to any ideology. Religion has just had thousands of years to perfect it.


For example?
Nun: Sister Augustine believes in things that aren't real.
House: I thought that was a job requirement for you people.

Dr. House: Isn't it interesting... religious behaviour is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart.

Eve: Abortion is murder.
Dr. House: True. It's a life and you should end it.
Eve: Every life is sacred.
Dr. House: Come on. Talk to me. Don't quote me bumper stickers.
Eve: It's true.
Dr. House: It's meaningless.
Eve: It means that every life matters to God.
Dr. House: Not to me. Not to you. Judging by the number of natural disasters, not to God either.
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Reply 4 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:22:55 PM)
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I consider myself more of a Secular Humanist these days than Atheist, but I went for the Atheist option anyway, since it is closest to what I believe than Agnostic.

Even if I were to concede to there being some kind of God, my belief in that God would be easily summed up by this quote from Candide: "When His Highness sends a ship to Egypt, do you suppose he worries whether the ship's mice are comfortable or not?"
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Reply 5 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:23:38 PM)
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political movements, for one, such as national socialism in germany.

green movements and animal rights groups, etc. those just off the top of my head, there are just as many on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
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Reply 6 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:27:36 PM)
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I'm glad to see we're on the same page here in that all ideological movements can ultimately be boiled down and comparable to Nazis. Honestly though, I don't know why I'm shocked it only took five posts for Nazis to be mentioned.
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Reply 7 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:32:16 PM)
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I'm for the most part secularist, in the sense that the state matters more to me then any religion ever has or will. Towards my beliefs, I might be considered a lax, uninvolved believer in unorganized philosophical spiritism; in that, I believe that all things have an "essence" or a "spirit" to them, neither positive nor negative. I don't believe in a God, or a creator... when it comes down to it, I'm scientifically minded and supportive of scientific ideals and thought. I don't seek moral guidance from this belief system. I typically tend to seek moral guidance from a mixture of law, respect and tact - aspects of my existence which has become ingrained in me by how I developed.

Over time my religious sympathies have changed. My parents never believed in pushing a religion on their children, so my household was largely agnostic or closeted religious. I wont deny that most stances on ethical and moral issues were based on Christian and Catholic doctrine, but that was hardly because of religion as it was my parents' upbringing. It must've become ingrained in them when they were children, so naturally it wouldn't come off as religiously ordained when they taught their children.

I bounced back and forth between religious and non-religious, attempts to be Christian or Buddhist to being completely atheist. I ended up where I am now, believing more strongly in a neutral environment, a neutral existence.

The one problem arises with an afterlife, and on its unlikelihood even though it sounds absolutely great. I'm inclined to view life and death as one in the same, neither positive nor negative, and merely a form of existence in its entirety. So, to me, the moment of death - and whatever that contains, whether it is just the brain emitting a "white light" as it shuts down, or nothing at all, or a wonderful limbo existence with clouds and whatnot - is the afterlife in its entirety. I like to imagine, as the historian I am, that it transcends time, and for a fleeting second I understand everything that has and will occur, and have observed the lives of others and those important to me. Doubtful, but it would be nice.
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Reply 8 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:37:18 PM)
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If I had to label my beliefs as one of those it would be atheist, although I'm hesitant to call myself that because there are a lot of atheist douchebags on the internet. Basically I believe that the existence of the supernatural isn't a scientific issue but a philosophical one.
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Reply 9 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:42:33 PM)
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Quoted from Stoffel:
political movements, for one, such as national socialism in germany.

green movements and animal rights groups, etc. those just off the top of my head, there are just as many on the opposite end of the political spectrum.


National Socialism was a totalitarian regime that operated on the dogmatic principle that the leader was to be obeyed at all times and every word he said was truth. Totalitarian regimes are actually a lot like religions. Also Hitler employed some pseudo-religious spooky mythology with his claims of the Aryan race and their supernatural superiority over the "lesser" races.

And green movements and animal rights groups have killed less people than Vlad the Impaler for crying out loud.
Nun: Sister Augustine believes in things that aren't real.
House: I thought that was a job requirement for you people.

Dr. House: Isn't it interesting... religious behaviour is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart.

Eve: Abortion is murder.
Dr. House: True. It's a life and you should end it.
Eve: Every life is sacred.
Dr. House: Come on. Talk to me. Don't quote me bumper stickers.
Eve: It's true.
Dr. House: It's meaningless.
Eve: It means that every life matters to God.
Dr. House: Not to me. Not to you. Judging by the number of natural disasters, not to God either.
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Reply 10 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:46:53 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
I'm glad to see we're on the same page here in that all ideological movements can ultimately be boiled down and comparable to Nazis. Honestly though, I don't know why I'm shocked it only took five posts for Nazis to be mentioned.

Still hasn't beat the two post record!

Theologically, I'm ignostic. I don't really care enough to think a lot about my theological beliefs, but I do believe people assume too much about god's existence and power. If I have to go to a place of worship, I'm rolling with the Catholic Lite. I was raised as such and feel no need to make any effort to alter my place of supposed worship, although good lord do they sing a lot.
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Reply 11 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:49:59 PM)
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Look man, the only green movement I believe in is the Green movement into my bowl and me smoking it!!! Other than that, those wackos are nuts if they think I'm going to get rid of my truck that gets 10 miles to the gallon because some eggheads in their ivory tower thinks that humans are contributing to "global warming." It's clear that "global warming" is nothing more than Earth becoming more and more like Hell, because those gays got the right to marry each other in holy matrimony. Come on now. And don't even get me started on those PETA assholes. Those guys would rather me lose my job at the cow slaughtering factory and watch my children starve to death than let some stupid little dumb cow with a peanut for a brain get killed, because they think its unethical to string them up by their legs and slit their throats and let them bleed out before ripping their skin off and processing them. Fucking hippies.
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Reply 12 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 06:59:28 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
Look man, the only green movement I believe in is the Green movement into my bowl and me smoking it!!! Other than that, those wackos are nuts if they think I'm going to get rid of my truck that gets 10 miles to the gallon because some eggheads in their ivory tower thinks that humans are contributing to "global warming." It's clear that "global warming" is nothing more than Earth becoming more and more like Hell, because those gays got the right to marry each other in holy matrimony. Come on now. And don't even get me started on those PETA assholes. Those guys would rather me lose my job at the cow slaughtering factory and watch my children starve to death than let some stupid little dumb cow with a peanut for a brain get killed, because they think its unethical to string them up by their legs and slit their throats and let them bleed out before ripping their skin off and processing them. Fucking hippies.


The sad thing is that a lot of people really think like this.
Nun: Sister Augustine believes in things that aren't real.
House: I thought that was a job requirement for you people.

Dr. House: Isn't it interesting... religious behaviour is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart.

Eve: Abortion is murder.
Dr. House: True. It's a life and you should end it.
Eve: Every life is sacred.
Dr. House: Come on. Talk to me. Don't quote me bumper stickers.
Eve: It's true.
Dr. House: It's meaningless.
Eve: It means that every life matters to God.
Dr. House: Not to me. Not to you. Judging by the number of natural disasters, not to God either.
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Reply 13 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 11:55:38 PM)
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i do not believe in any god due to the very low probability of their existence, and just about anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion is either ignorant, lying to themselves or mentally a child
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Reply 14 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-26-09 11:55:54 PM)
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I'm atheist, and I'm one of those assholes Ztolk is speaking of.

Supernatural doesn't mean anything other than it hasn't been explained by science so far. (or the people that label things supernatural don't ever learn anything, ever)

Just two days ago one of my Mother's "spiritual" friends tried to tell me that the sun has stopped emitting radiation. (and something about 2012 I wanted to hit her for saying)

I mean, what the FUCK.
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Reply 15 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 06:34:45 AM)
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I voted Agnostic, though the "on the fence" bit bothered me. I would not say i'm 'on the fence' because that seems to imply that I could some day come to an opinion one way or another with any confidence. Based on what we know now, this seems highly improbable to me.
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Reply 16 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 06:44:44 AM)
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Quoted from fa:
I now believe religions are dangerous things which breed ignorance and fear


Atheists are absurd. In fact, they are either as absurd or slightly more absurd than Christian fundamentalists who picket abortion clinics or Islamic Jihadists who think God is going to reward them with virgins for blowing up fellow Muslims. The reason for this is that all three suffer from the same fundamental delusion known as faith.

Christian and Muslims have faith that God does exist despite having little to no empirical evidence supporting their conclusion. The same could be said of atheism in that, despite the total lack of evidence disavowing the existence of God, they will persist in their assertion that they are sure, for an incontrovertible fact, that He doesn't exist. Now, in my opinion this is why atheism is probably a more absurd "faith" than the other two; unlike them, its faith is based on the assumption that faith itself false without providing anything to substantiate that claim other than rhetoric, metaphors, and bankrupt moral reasoning (of which this thread is a good example). So, while criticizing faith as base and monotheistic religion as ultimately deceptive in both its logic and intent, atheism effectively commits both of those feats while cloaking itself in the white robe of rationalism.

In the bottom line, humans "invented" God in the same way that they invented atheism; to provide a reliable framework for describing how things happen in the Universe without having to consider the nearly unlimited amount of potential burrs associated with advanced intellectual self-analysis. Simply assuming God doesn't exist to explain why something happened is just as simple, and just as necessary, as a devout Catholic assuming God did exist to explain the very same thing.

Also, you guys forgot to include the option for the Big City Atheist.
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Reply 17 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 08:04:54 AM)
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I don't think you understand Atheism too well, Vissario.

and no, I don't care to elaborate, religious debates are always gay.
‹just dandy› but. again. funnel aspect. I don't want anything put in there unawares. I'm no Richard Gere.
‹Purple› If it was Sunny doing it, s/he'd be pretty rough
‹just dandy› ouch. I just involuntarily clenched.
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Reply 18 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 08:57:35 AM)
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I threw myself into the spiritualist category. I wouldn't consider myself atheist because of thoughts about the afterlife. Also due to the thousands of mysterious things people can sense about each other and animals and plants and whatever else. There really is this element of spirit or faith that I believe is essential to life.

I don't deny any scientific knowledge or experience I have, but that does not exclude the presence of some creator or larger spirit.

On a bit of a tangent, reincarnation is one thing, but I don't understand why, if someone were an atheist who believed that this life is it and there is no consequence to it whatsoever, why they wouldn't just kill themselves.
how is this for a quote
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Reply 19 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 09:05:27 AM)
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Quote:

On a bit of a tangent, reincarnation is one thing, but I don't understand why, if someone were an atheist who believed that this life is it and there is no consequence to it whatsoever, why they wouldn't just kill themselves.


We have invented things like nationalism and consumerism to be effective fill-ins.
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Reply 20 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 09:31:20 AM)
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As usual, Viss makes a cogent point and wraps it in a warm tortilla of asshattery.

I would actually label myself a Diest but lean toward Agnostic by the categories above. I don't think we can know if there is a crator but an "intellegent creator" (god I hate that phrase, maybe "Intelligent Creative Force" would be better. Nope still no go. Damn.) sure as hell makes a lot more sense to me than: Um... we're just here.

As an aside, I hate Richard Dawkins with a passion. He should stick to science and leave the philosophy and theology to people who can actually pull it off.
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Reply 21 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 09:55:53 AM)
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Quoted from CurseOfTheGreatBambino:
On a bit of a tangent, reincarnation is one thing, but I don't understand why, if someone were an atheist who believed that this life is it and there is no consequence to it whatsoever, why they wouldn't just kill themselves.


This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you kill yourself if you know that this life is all that you could possibly have?

I'd be more likely to just kill myself if I thought there was an afterlife.
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Reply 22 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 10:00:49 AM)
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Quoted from Sunny:
I'm for the most part secularist, in the sense that the state matters more to me then any religion ever has or will. Towards my beliefs, I might be considered a lax, uninvolved believer in unorganized philosophical spiritism; in that, I believe that all things have an "essence" or a "spirit" to them, neither positive nor negative. I don't believe in a God, or a creator... when it comes down to it, I'm scientifically minded and supportive of scientific ideals and thought. I don't seek moral guidance from this belief system. I typically tend to seek moral guidance from a mixture of law, respect and tact - aspects of my existence which has become ingrained in me by how I developed.

Over time my religious sympathies have changed. My parents never believed in pushing a religion on their children, so my household was largely agnostic or closeted religious. I wont deny that most stances on ethical and moral issues were based on Christian and Catholic doctrine, but that was hardly because of religion as it was my parents' upbringing. It must've become ingrained in them when they were children, so naturally it wouldn't come off as religiously ordained when they taught their children.

I bounced back and forth between religious and non-religious, attempts to be Christian or Buddhist to being completely atheist. I ended up where I am now, believing more strongly in a neutral environment, a neutral existence.

The one problem arises with an afterlife, and on its unlikelihood even though it sounds absolutely great. I'm inclined to view life and death as one in the same, neither positive nor negative, and merely a form of existence in its entirety. So, to me, the moment of death - and whatever that contains, whether it is just the brain emitting a "white light" as it shuts down, or nothing at all, or a wonderful limbo existence with clouds and whatnot - is the afterlife in its entirety. I like to imagine, as the historian I am, that it transcends time, and for a fleeting second I understand everything that has and will occur, and have observed the lives of others and those important to me. Doubtful, but it would be nice.


We are in the same boat. I believe almost exactly what you typed.
It is what it is...
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Reply 23 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 10:13:23 AM)
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Quoted from CurseOfTheGreatBambino:


On a bit of a tangent, reincarnation is one thing, but I don't understand why, if someone were an atheist who believed that this life is it and there is no consequence to it whatsoever, why they wouldn't just kill themselves.


This is kind of ridiculous. Instead of wasting time appeasing some great "creator" you can be free to accomplish things you want to do, like learn about fascinating things not of this world. I like the idea of being a spec in an infinitesimal universe, the odds are so small for all of the right things to come together to create intelligent life, yet they happened and I'm a part of that. I don't know why I'd want to kill myself. =/
‹just dandy› but. again. funnel aspect. I don't want anything put in there unawares. I'm no Richard Gere.
‹Purple› If it was Sunny doing it, s/he'd be pretty rough
‹just dandy› ouch. I just involuntarily clenched.
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GLEEK

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Reply 24 of 98 (Originally posted on: 05-27-09 10:41:47 AM)
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Quoted from vissario:
Quoted from fa:
I now believe religions are dangerous things which breed ignorance and fear


Atheists are absurd. In fact, they are either as absurd or slightly more absurd than Christian fundamentalists who picket abortion clinics or Islamic Jihadists who think God is going to reward them with virgins for blowing up fellow Muslims. The reason for this is that all three suffer from the same fundamental delusion known as faith.

Christian and Muslims have faith that God does exist despite having little to no empirical evidence supporting their conclusion. The same could be said of atheism in that, despite the total lack of evidence disavowing the existence of God, they will persist in their assertion that they are sure, for an incontrovertible fact, that He doesn't exist. Now, in my opinion this is why atheism is probably a more absurd "faith" than the other two; unlike them, its faith is based on the assumption that faith itself false without providing anything to substantiate that claim other than rhetoric, metaphors, and bankrupt moral reasoning (of which this thread is a good example). So, while criticizing faith as base and monotheistic religion as ultimately deceptive in both its logic and intent, atheism effectively commits both of those feats while cloaking itself in the white robe of rationalism.

In the bottom line, humans "invented" God in the same way that they invented atheism; to provide a reliable framework for describing how things happen in the Universe without having to consider the nearly unlimited amount of potential burrs associated with advanced intellectual self-analysis. Simply assuming God doesn't exist to explain why something happened is just as simple, and just as necessary, as a devout Catholic assuming God did exist to explain the very same thing.

Also, you guys forgot to include the option for the Big City Atheist.

atheism isn't the belief that gods don't exist
it's the lack of belief they exist
you might have trouble making the distinction

Quoted from DrNick:

As an aside, I hate Richard Dawkins with a passion. He should stick to science and leave the philosophy and theology to people who can actually pull it off.
why? dawkins is fine and theology belongs in the trash

Quoted from CurseOfTheGreatBambino:

On a bit of a tangent, reincarnation is one thing, but I don't understand why, if someone were an atheist who believed that this life is it and there is no consequence to it whatsoever, why they wouldn't just kill themselves.

do you even read the words you post
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