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Ztolk
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(Originally posted on: 09-17-08 06:02:39 PM)
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Politicians/lobbyists/whatevers are always saying how the evil cigarette companies target kids to try to get them to smoke. As kids did any of you feel that way or notice that? I know when I was growing up there was constant anti-smoking propoganda, and never once did I see any advertisements for cigarettes whatsoever. I don't know what these people are talking about. Do you?
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Reply 1 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 06:07:58 PM)
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I think all of that was before our time. By the time we were growing up the evil was exposed. I'm assuming.

But now that you mention it, its pretty bad that they are calling them out for something they did like 30 years ago. I'm guessing.
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Reply 2 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 06:15:15 PM)
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I didn't start smoking until I was about 18, and was actually vehemently against smoking until about then too.

Anytime I see it in the media, it's always negative; as an accessory for the antagonist (any 70s-90s action movie), as a vice for the main character (Constantine), or as an anti-smoking message when a character quits later on (Stranger than Fiction, Charlie Bartlet).

As far as actual advertising by cigarette companies, isn't it illegal for them to actually advertise outside of certain magazines and... that's about it.

I think the only real advertising that goes on for kids is when they see people in real life smoking and think it looks cool (30% cooler, in fact).
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Reply 3 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 07:23:50 PM)
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I dunno, those boxes definitely don't look like they are designed for the seasoned tough older men. It looks like something a kid would find attractive.

And its both a menthol and a regular cig, depending on if you crush the menthol ball or not. pretty cool stuff.
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Reply 4 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 08:18:28 PM)
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Yes, they target kids. It makes sense money-wise. The majority of people start smoking before the age of 20. If you haven't started smoking by then, you probably won't start in your adult years. No reason to target adult smokers because they are already smoking and addicted. Kids represent a generation of could-be smokers that they could hook for life.
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Reply 5 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 09:14:43 PM)
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That ad looks more geared towards 20-somethings, actually.

From my own experience, cigarettes never made much of a major difference in the lives of my childhood friends until after we had graduated. It was only when they had left school, and got jobs (and did not necessarily go into post-secondary), and could legally purchase cigarettes that people I have known have moved to using cigarettes.

I don't generally think cigarette companies do advertise to kids. Kids can't buy cigarettes, it's not legal and it certainly wouldn't help their publicity at all. No, what I think drives cigarette usage are three factors which do all the work of the cigarette companies: 1) The environment the kid grows up in. 2) The repercussions of anti-smoking campaigns, and the encouragement not to do it. 3) Most importantly, the use of the cigarette because it offers a form of "relaxation" when kids realize that once they've graduated, and get stuck in the workforce, their aspirations are doomed.
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Reply 6 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 09:18:32 PM)
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Quote:
-Camel Crush photo-
I dunno, those boxes definitely don't look like they are designed for the seasoned tough older men. It looks like something a kid would find attractive.


Or perhaps 20-somethings?

I go to bars down here every weekend and every weekend there are Camel guys walking around handing out packs of these for free to people of age after they check your IDs. Never before have I seen them advertised anywhere outside of bars and clubs aside from sitting next to boxes of other cigarettes wherever you can buy them.

The truth is: cigarettes advertise themselves to kids everywhere by movies, tv, the media in general, and the people who smoke them as you walk by those smokers when you're with your kids.

The only advertising that actual cigarette companies do is to keep smokers smoking for life. Lifetime-smokers are their number one customer base, not kids. They don't give a shit about people who don't smoke, they don't try to get people to start smoking, their product itself is its own advertisement, they only care about the people who are already doing it.

Quote:
Kids represent a generation of could-be smokers that they could hook for life.


Actually, kids represent a non-customer base along with the rest of non-smokers. It's not in their interests as a company to "secretly advertise" smoking since any kid with eyes and a television already knows what cigarettes are from TRUTH ads (and health class and DARE). They don't do any advertising at all to people who don't smoke because they simply don't need to, the product basically sells itself (being addictive and all), they just help it along by introducing new flavors and whatnot to keep already-smokers interested.
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This reply was last edited on 09-17-08 09:24:18 PM by ba.
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Reply 7 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 09:24:14 PM)
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I think that picture looks really cool to me. Maybe kids would like it too, but it looks like something attractive to someone more our age. Not a seasoned old man, but not a middle schooler either.
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Reply 8 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-17-08 09:32:02 PM)
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They are cool! Not only is the click actually audible, but the corners on the box are rounded out so even the box is cool!

Sadly whenever I had gotten them from the free-Camels guy, I never actually end up clicking them because I'm pretty grossed out by menthol cigs.
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Reply 9 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 12:06:32 AM)
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It looks like gum packaging. You can't tell me that isn't attractive to underage kids.
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Reply 10 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 02:39:57 AM)
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I imagine they target teens rather than kids. Targeting kids sounds like too much of a long-term invest for moustache-twirling greedy villains.
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Ztolk
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Reply 11 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 04:13:33 AM)
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Quoted from Zippo:
Yes, they target kids. It makes sense money-wise. The majority of people start smoking before the age of 20. If you haven't started smoking by then, you probably won't start in your adult years. No reason to target adult smokers because they are already smoking and addicted. Kids represent a generation of could-be smokers that they could hook for life.


Yes it makes sense but can you point to any examples?


Oh God I sound like vissario.
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This reply was last edited on 09-18-08 05:36:13 AM by Ztolk.
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Reply 12 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 08:11:18 AM)
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Cigarette companies do America a service by lowering the life-span of the bottom under-performing members of the economy. Without cigarettes, crack, and other drugs, the populations of blacks and hispanics would even more out of control and they would be spending their money on important capital investments like education and better neighborhoods. Things like this would elevate their position in our society and threaten our own.

We need to get more Asians (notably males) addicted to smoking and drugs before they close the 1% pay gap and eventually become the most well payed members of our society.
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Reply 13 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 08:17:56 AM)
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Quoted from Ztolk:
Quoted from Zippo:
Yes, they target kids. It makes sense money-wise. The majority of people start smoking before the age of 20. If you haven't started smoking by then, you probably won't start in your adult years. No reason to target adult smokers because they are already smoking and addicted. Kids represent a generation of could-be smokers that they could hook for life.


Yes it makes sense but can you point to any examples?


Oh God I sound like vissario.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/266/22/3149

If you want the full article, I could probably hunt it down for you.

Asking for evidence isn't a bad thing.
Ztolk
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Reply 14 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 08:49:31 AM)
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Quoted from vietsarrio:
Cigarette companies do America a service by lowering the life-span of the bottom under-performing members of the economy. Without cigarettes, crack, and other drugs, the populations of blacks and hispanics would even more out of control and they would be spending their money on important capital investments like education and better neighborhoods. Things like this would elevate their position in our society and threaten our own.

We need to get more Asians (notably males) addicted to smoking and drugs before they close the 1% pay gap and eventually become the most well payed members of our society.


Smoking is really common in Asia, but I'm not sure how much Asians in America smoke.
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Reply 15 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 09:13:35 AM)
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Quoted from Ztolk:
Quoted from vietsarrio:
Cigarette companies do America a service by lowering the life-span of the bottom under-performing members of the economy. Without cigarettes, crack, and other drugs, the populations of blacks and hispanics would even more out of control and they would be spending their money on important capital investments like education and better neighborhoods. Things like this would elevate their position in our society and threaten our own.

We need to get more Asians (notably males) addicted to smoking and drugs before they close the 1% pay gap and eventually become the most well payed members of our society.


Smoking is really common in Asia, but I'm not sure how much Asians in America smoke.


Not enough, obviously.

A Western education combined with a culture that promotes heavy capital investment has led Asians in this country to great material and social advacement in the last half-century. It is amazing to me that Asian males earn only 1% less than their white counter-parts in most professional white-collar jobs; this gap is only going to continue to shrink and, perhaps, reverse itself in the near future. Why is this? It is because, unlike other minorities and a lot of the general white population, Asians realize the necessity of not wasting their resources of such frivolities like smoking, gambling, and many other leisure activities that, while fun, lead to nothing.

Indeed, I would go so far as to say that smoking is not so much a result of lobbying and advertising as much as it is a systemic problem of our laziness, sloth, and fascination with leisure here in America.
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Reply 16 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 09:40:57 AM)
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Quote:
They don't give a shit about people who don't smoke, they don't try to get people to start smoking, their product itself is its own advertisement, they only care about the people who are already doing it.

You think they don't care if people start smoking, only about those who already do smoke?

That's stupid and makes no sense.

They always say that whatever advertising they do is only meant to make people switch from other brands to their own, because they know that saying they're trying to make more people start smoking and make less people quit would be considered "evil".

Also, you don't notice them trying to make people start smoking as much here anymore because they've moved most of their more obviously "evil" methods and marketing to the third world, where no one who is important cares about what they do and they have a much bigger market.
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This reply was last edited on 09-18-08 09:50:26 AM by drahnier.
Ztolk
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Reply 17 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 10:00:44 AM)
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Quote:
Indeed, I would go so far as to say that smoking is not so much a result of lobbying and advertising as much as it is a systemic problem of our laziness, sloth, and fascination with leisure here in America.


They have smoking in other parts of the world. It's probably more prevalent in Europe and Asia than North America, but I'm not sure.

Where do you get that 1% number from? Usually if there's a difference of one percent its meaningless because the noise/standard deviation is greater.
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Reply 18 of 18 (Originally posted on: 09-18-08 12:50:26 PM)
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In Turkey children are born with a cigarette in their mouth.
I'm the conjurer of demons,
I'm the father of your death.
I bring forth the ancient evil,
I control his every breath.
I instigate your misfortune,
With the birth of killing trolls.
I awaken armageddon,
Feeding on a thousand souls.
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