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antpocas
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(Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:06:39 PM)
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Quote:
TOPEKA, Kan. - Risking the kind of nationwide ridicule it faced six years ago, the Kansas Board of Education approved new public-school science standards Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution.
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The 6-4 vote was a victory for "intelligent design" advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Critics of the new language charged that it was an attempt to inject God and creationism into public schools in violation of the separation of church and state.

All six of those who voted for the new standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted no.

"This is a sad day. We're becoming a laughingstock of not only the nation, but of the world, and I hate that," said board member Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat.

Supporters of the new standards said they will promote academic freedom. "It gets rid of a lot of dogma that's being taught in the classroom today," said board member John Bacon, an Olathe Republican.

The new standards say high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts. But they also declare that the basic Darwinian theory that all life had a common origin and that natural chemical processes created the building blocks of life have been challenged in recent years by fossil evidence and molecular biology.

In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.

The new standards will be used to develop student tests measuring how well schools teach science. Decisions about what is taught in classrooms will remain with 300 local school boards, but some educators fear pressure will increase in some communities to teach less about evolution or more about creationism or intelligent design.

The vote marked the third time in six years that the Kansas board has rewritten standards with evolution as the central issue.

In 1999, the board eliminated most references to evolution. Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould said that was akin to teaching "American history without Lincoln." Bill Nye, the "Science Guy" of children's television, called it "harebrained" and "nutty." And a Washington Post columnist imagined God saying to the Kansas board members: "Man, I gave you a brain. Use it, OK?"

Two years later, after voters replaced three members, the board reverted to evolution-friendly standards. Elections in 2002 and 2004 changed the board's composition again, making it more conservative.

The latest vote likely to bring fresh national criticism to Kansas and cause many scientists to see the state as backward.

Many scientists and other critics contend creationists repackaged old ideas in new, scientific-sounding language to get around a
U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1987 against teaching the biblical story of creation in public schools.

The Kansas board's action is part of a national debate. In Pennsylvania, a judge is expected to rule soon in a lawsuit against the Dover school board's policy of requiring high school students to learn about intelligent design in biology class. In August,
President Bush endorsed teaching intelligent design alongside evolution

Source

I find it unfathomable that in this day and age, people still believe in this shit. It's even worse that it's going to be taught in schools now.

I wonder if Magic vs. Physics is next.
This reply was last edited on 11-10-05 11:04:28 AM by antpocas.
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Reply 1 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:20:45 PM)
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The irony is that this theory is far from intelligent.
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Reply 2 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:32:23 PM)
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I really liked Slate magazine's take on intelligent design.

Specifically this quote:
Quote:
But the critics are missing the beauty of this new theory. Because the really great thing about intelligent design is that it takes all the awkward uncertainty out of science. It says, "You know those damn theoretical gaps and conundrums that send microbiology graduate students into dank basement laboratories at 3 a.m.? They don't need to be resolved at all. Go back to bed, sleepy little grad students. God fills those gaps."
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Reply 3 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:38:32 PM)
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Intelligent Design is an absolutely useless theory. It would be far better to have the schools take a world religions course and make their decisions based on science and philosophy. After all, science used to be "Natural Philosophy" or something like that.

Maybe we'd see a lot more Buddhists, and our world would be filled with a bunch of peaceful, rice eating skinny people.

While I think "Intelligent Design" being taught is stupid, I also think that an explanation of world religions should be made mandatory in public schools. Not only is it the basis for many writings and is alluded to many times, but it's useful to know in your knowledge and understanding of the world's people. You might even find some things that make you want to change your life through a want for change rather than being driven to objectives by fear. And in a world religions course, no one is telling you that there is one true religion - you can believe what you want to.

But enough of that, it doesn't surprise me that America's schools are being dumbed down even further.
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Reply 4 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:39:56 PM)
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I don't know a whole lot about Intelligent Design but I don't see why it's impossible that there might be a God. I thought Science was all about not making assumptions and stuff...

Besides, I don't like Atheism; it makes me feel sad, lonely and insignificant. this is an emo emoticon, get it??? EMO-TICON!!!
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Reply 5 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:46:28 PM)
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Quoted from DrNick:
I don't know a whole lot about Intelligent Design but I don't see why it's impossible that there might be a God. I thought Science was all about not making assumptions and stuff...

Besides, I don't like Atheism; it makes me feel sad, lonely and insignificant. this is an emo emoticon, get it??? EMO-TICON!!!


I think that's not really the problem. There's no rule saying believing in God is wrong or improper or stupid, it's that the theory is full of holes and denies scientific evidence. I attend a Catholic High School, and our science is strictly separate from the religious teachings, unless you get this one idiot who argues about the church and his beliefs in every friggin' class to the point where everybody dislikes him and makes fun of him, but we have the whole philosophy in place so that nobody beats the tar out of him.
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Reply 6 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:47:21 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
I find it unfathomable that in this day and age, people still believe in this shit


Quoted from Dante:
The irony is that this theory is far from intelligent.




I really hate condescending assholes who act like anyone who has a form of faith is retarded. I'm not religious, and I don't believe that "intelligent design" should be taught in schools. However, just because people have faith in a higher power doesn't make them any less intelligent than you.

Ever heard of War and Peace?

In conclusion, either write a classic work of literature or shut up.
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Reply 7 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:47:46 PM)
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@Hasty Penguin: Well I can agree with that. In my opinion, Science shouldn't have a religion so these things should be taught in a religious or philosophy class.
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Reply 8 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:49:12 PM)
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Quoted from DrNick:
I don't know a whole lot about Intelligent Design but I don't see why it's impossible that there might be a God. I thought Science was all about not making assumptions and stuff...
Evolution is the process by which populations of organisms acquire and pass on novel traits from generation to generation, affecting the overall makeup of the population and even leading to the emergence of new species (Source: Wikipedia). It has nothing to do with God. These "people", however, are trying to get creationism/ID (in other words, religion) in science class.
The rest of this post is dedicated to the scientific evidence that supports these, uh, theories.
antpocas
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Reply 9 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:51:44 PM)
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Quoted from Agon:
Quoted from antpocas:
I find it unfathomable that in this day and age, people still believe in this shit


Quoted from Dante:
The irony is that this theory is far from intelligent.




I really hate condescending assholes who act like anyone who has a form of faith is retarded. I'm not religious, and I don't believe that "intelligent design" should be taught in schools. However, just because people have faith in a higher power doesn't make them any less intelligent than you.

Ever heard of War and Peace?

In conclusion, either write a classic work of literature or shut up.
What the fuck are you talking about? Creation is a myth. Unlike evolution, it has no proof and does not belong in science class.

Oh yeah, just because Tolstoy wrote a bunch of fancy books doesn't make him smarter than me. There's a lot of smart people who are religious, but it doesn't mean everyone that's dumber than them should be religious because hey, they're smarter than me!
This reply was last edited on 11-09-05 03:57:43 PM by antpocas.
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Reply 10 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:52:42 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
Quoted from DrNick:
I don't know a whole lot about Intelligent Design but I don't see why it's impossible that there might be a God. I thought Science was all about not making assumptions and stuff...
Evolution is the process by which populations of organisms acquire and pass on novel traits from generation to generation, affecting the overall makeup of the population and even leading to the emergence of new species (Source: Wikipedia). It has nothing to do with God. These "people", however, are trying to get creationism/ID (in other words, religion) in science class.
The rest of this post is dedicated to the scientific evidence that supports these, uh, theories.

http://forums.interestingnonetheless.net/display.php?tid=21610
Quoted from Hasty Penguin:
Intelligent Design is an absolutely useless theory. It would be far better to have the schools take a world religions course and make their decisions based on science and philosophy. After all, science used to be "Natural Philosophy" or something like that.

And that is why my school has an elective on the general education curriculum concerning Introductions to Religion and Religion in America.
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Reply 11 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:54:50 PM)
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That's fucking pathetic.
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Reply 12 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:55:56 PM)
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The thing I find fascinating is that, in my grade ten religions class (because although we are taught primarily Catholic religious teachings (outside of grade eleven (best religion class ever)), we always were taught about the other religions that exist - and not at all in a bad light, often times applauded), we were taught the theory of evolution at the same time as creationism. The words intelligent design were never said in the classroom.

We were also taught that the theories could co-exist. What's so unbelievable about God creating a planet and letting evolution happen as opposed to "the big bang"?

Sorry to keep side-tracking. My point is, it is acceptable to allow the idea of creationism to be taught as theory, but at the same time, big bang to be taught as theory as well. AND ONLY ABOUT ORIGINS OF THE PLANET ET CETERA. NOT AFTER "CREATION".

Evolution is not comparable to creationism, but it is to intelligent design. Evolution does not explain creation - unless someone wants to prove me wrong on that one, but my understanding is that something has to be there to evolve before evolution happens...

edit: actually don't because creation vs. big bang debates are boring and endless.
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Reply 13 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:56:20 PM)
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While I can understand the weight that is placed on empirical evidence in today's society (I mean, it got us this far), I never understood the complete dismissal of other types of evidence (e.g. anecdotal, logical, etc).

It is my opinion that there is a God of some sort. You can't prove me wrong, so why would you call me an idiot?
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Reply 14 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:56:46 PM)
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Nobody accepts deism anymore. MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS
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Reply 15 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 03:59:08 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
What the fuck are you talking about? Creation is a myth. Unlike evolution, it has no proof and does not belong in science class.


R>C>P

Reproduced below for your convenience is my original post:

Quoted from Agon:

I really hate condescending assholes who act like anyone who has a form of faith is retarded. I'm not religious, and I don't believe that "intelligent design" should be taught in schools. However, just because people have faith in a higher power doesn't make them any less intelligent than you.



I agree that creationism has no basis in science, and doesn't belong in a school. However, my comment was directed toward your generalized attitude, the same attitude which was in Dante's post, mainly:

HURR RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE DUM
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Reply 16 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:00:20 PM)
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My only hope is that by teaching "intelligent design" it shows students how fucking retarded "intelligent design" is, thus turning them onto evolution.


I'm not so much against this though, provided they don't teach this as fact, but as theory (albeit a very weak one which has no basis in reality or this dimension). However, I have little faith in the ideal that they'll teach this as theory, but rather as etched-in-stone fact, which makes me want to cry.
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Reply 17 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:01:10 PM)
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Quoted from Hasty Penguin:
My point is, it is acceptable to allow the idea of creationism to be taught as theory
NO, IT IS NOT. CREATIONISM IS COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED. IT IS NOT A FUCKING THEORY!

Quoted from Agon:
Quoted from antpocas:
What the fuck are you talking about? Creation is a myth. Unlike evolution, it has no proof and does not belong in science class.


R>C>P

Reproduced below for your convenience is my original post:

Quoted from Agon:

I really hate condescending assholes who act like anyone who has a form of faith is retarded. I'm not religious, and I don't believe that "intelligent design" should be taught in schools. However, just because people have faith in a higher power doesn't make them any less intelligent than you.



I agree that creationism has no basis in science, and doesn't belong in a school. However, my comment was directed toward your generalized attitude, the same attitude which was in Dante's post, mainly:

HURR RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE DUM
By "this shit", I mean creationism, and yes, anyone that believes in it is dumb. Fuck, even the Vatican thinks they're idiots.
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Reply 18 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:05:02 PM)
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Everyone should read this thread before this turn into another boring religous argument.
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Reply 19 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:05:32 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
Quoted from Hasty Penguin:
My point is, it is acceptable to allow the idea of creationism to be taught as theory
NO, IT IS NOT. CREATIONISM IS COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED. IT IS NOT A FUCKING THEORY!
Conspiracy theories typically are completely unsubstantiated, yet they are still theories.

A theory that dirt originated from alien feces is still a theory, despite it being completely unsubstantiated.

Intelligent design, despite being based in religion with absolutely no proof whatsoever while also neglecting what proof there is for evolution, is still a theory, whether or not you use caps lock.
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Reply 20 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:09:04 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
Quoted from antpocas:
Quoted from Hasty Penguin:
My point is, it is acceptable to allow the idea of creationism to be taught as theory
NO, IT IS NOT. CREATIONISM IS COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED. IT IS NOT A FUCKING THEORY!
Conspiracy theories typically are completely unsubstantiated, yet they are still theories.

A theory that dirt originated from alien feces is still a theory, despite it being completely unsubstantiated.

Intelligent design, despite being based in religion with absolutely no proof whatsoever while also neglecting what proof there is for evolution, is still a theory, whether or not you use caps lock.
Well, the dictionary seems to agree with me, unless of course I'm missing an entry mm i wanna suck ur cock lol

This cartoon is pretty cool:
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Reply 21 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:12:19 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
By "this shit", I mean creationism, and yes, anyone that believes in it is dumb. Fuck, even the Vatican thinks they're idiots.


Well, since you're already aware of your own prejudices and generalizations, I'll just ask you why the theory of evolution and the theory that God created the universe are mutually exclusive.

Quoted from antpocas:
Well, the dictionary seems to agree with me, unless of course I'm missing an entry mm i wanna suck ur cock lol

Quoted from dictionary.com:
Abstract reasoning; speculation
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Reply 22 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:13:06 PM)
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Quoted from Agon:
Quoted from antpocas:
I find it unfathomable that in this day and age, people still believe in this shit


Quoted from Dante:
The irony is that this theory is far from intelligent.




I really hate condescending assholes who act like anyone who has a form of faith is retarded. I'm not religious, and I don't believe that "intelligent design" should be taught in schools. However, just because people have faith in a higher power doesn't make them any less intelligent than you.
God belongs nowhere in scientific theory.

Teaching science is about outlining what we have documented by experimentation and evidence, and the conclusions we can draw from this process. Evolution is just one of those conclusions, just like for example, the distances between the planets. Scientists have observed evolution in species such as bacteria. God should have nothing to do with it.

For all we know, God could be doing evolution just to fuck with us, or to persuade us into some sort of conclusions about Social Darwinism. That would fly right in the fucking face of his son's teachings, but that's not the issue here, and it is theoretically impossible for us to comprehend his thought process anyways.

The theory of an omnipotent God can effectively counter any argument to anything, but is impossible to prove/disprove due to its very nature. Essentially, it's a copout.
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This reply was last edited on 11-09-05 10:04:42 PM by Dante.
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Reply 23 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:14:58 PM)
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Quoted from antpocas:
Well, the dictionary seems to agree with me, unless of course I'm missing an entry mm i wanna suck ur cock lol
I agree with you that intelligent design is not a "scientific theory" as there is absolutely nothing based in science that can be used to positively test intelligent design using the scientific method. However, I would say that intelligent design would fit snugly along with the "abstract reasoning; speculation" aspect of your fanastically researched dictionary.com link.

Also, love how the Internet makes everyone instantly intelligent. It makes for interesting debates.
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Reply 24 of 56 (Originally posted on: 11-09-05 04:17:28 PM)
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Quoted from Dante:
God belongs nowhere in scientific theory.


I completely agree, but I'm not quoting my original post again.
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