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Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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(Originally posted on: 07-26-05 04:53:01 AM)
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http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18725095.600

Microwave beam weapons have now been developed by the US military for use in war. When the weapon is set to a lower setting it can be used against riots (ie: PROTESTS).

I dont understand why any country would need such a device, especially the one that apparently brings peace and freedom to the rest of us unenlightened idiots.

Why is the US military allowed to develop such insidious shit but they get to bomb and meddle in the affairs of other countries for keeping tiny quantities of something like anthrax? I think the failures of the Bush Administration and previous governments have proven that the US is just as fallible as the rest of the world but that only the poor and downtrodden countries actually get punished for harbouring weapons that America - Land Of The Free, England, France and China produce en masse.

This is a new and extremely creepy crowd control/people killing device, what need does the world have for such a thing? Why do they keep finding new and better ways to kill people and yet scream at other crazy people and call them evil for using homemade bombs? Both are evil in my opinion.

Everybody’s got a secret, Sonny
Something that they just can’t face
Some folks spend their whole lives tryin’ to keep it
They carry it with `em every step that they take
Till some day they just cut it loose— cut it loose or let it drag `em down
Where no one asks any questions, or looks too long in your face
In the darkness on the edge of town

This reply was last edited on 07-26-05 04:58:51 AM by Snowy.
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Reply 1 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 05:28:53 AM)
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i'm pretty sure it's because amerikkka sucks man
mmac
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Reply 2 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 06:28:29 AM)
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Tear gas can melt contact lenses into your eyes as well. They are always super careful during testing to prevent injuries. This may even be safer than tear gas because CS (army term) can flare up an asthma attack. It also won't float back and hit the soldiers which is what they consider the important part.

All in all, it's still better than using a machine gun.

PS, I don't see how something that causes immediate but relatively harmless pain can be considered worse than Anthrax, an extremely lethal chemical weapon. Don't be a fucking retard when you discuss this stuff.


PPS, the bandwidth they're talking about will not even go past your initial layers of dermis so you don't have to worry about getting cancer from it.

When it says less than lethal that's what it means, this isn't just a magic ray gun that they'll point at people on random, or just for fun. This is a riot control weapon.
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This reply was last edited on 07-26-05 06:35:45 AM by mmac.
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Reply 3 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 10:13:13 AM)
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this seems way nicer than pepper spray
C
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Reply 4 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 11:08:14 AM)
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Quoted from mmac:
Tear gas can melt contact lenses into your eyes as well. They are always super careful during testing to prevent injuries. This may even be safer than tear gas because CS (army term) can flare up an asthma attack. It also won't float back and hit the soldiers which is what they consider the important part.

All in all, it's still better than using a machine gun.

PS, I don't see how something that causes immediate but relatively harmless pain can be considered worse than Anthrax, an extremely lethal chemical weapon. Don't be a fucking retard when you discuss this stuff.


PPS, the bandwidth they're talking about will not even go past your initial layers of dermis so you don't have to worry about getting cancer from it.

When it says less than lethal that's what it means, this isn't just a magic ray gun that they'll point at people on random, or just for fun. This is a riot control weapon.


I love you.

Snowy, should they just go ahead and use a daisy cutter bomb? I'm sure that'll take care of those riots!
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler. He did a lot. But don't we all wish he woulda just stayed home and gotten stoned?


LEEROY JENKINS!
Tyr

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Reply 5 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 11:38:05 AM)
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I think she is talking more about the implications of research (i.e. title: develop this weapon), than the actual weapon. They are going to get gobs of money to research and develop this weapon, but aren't going to magically stop when they find efficient ways to make it lethal.

How many doors this opens is a more concerning prospect than the immediate result.

Also mmac, I think maybe you should relax with the retard jibes; I remember you getting slammed pretty soundly in a certain drug debate.
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Reply 6 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 12:07:26 PM)
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But I don't know guys, I'd rather get shot by a beanbag from a shotgun or a rubber bullet from a high-powered rifle and possibly die if hit in the right places.

P.S. Without military and weapon research, a lot more of what you may take for granted wouldn't exist today. I.E. Microwaves. For Easy-Mac. Mmmm...
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Reply 7 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 12:09:13 PM)
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Quoted from THS:
i'm pretty sure it's because amerikkka sucks man


Was it really necessary to ban me? I don't see any rules that I broke. Was I trolling INTL? Point it out to me. If you're going to have this little fucking hilarious crusade against me, atleast be funny about it, telling everyone how much of an idiot I am and then showing hilarious e-mails and ICQ logs. OH WAIT, THERE AREN'T ANY. BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU BECAME AND ASSHOLE AND FOR NO FUCKING REASON. Atleast you haven't told me your reasoning for it. Jesus fuck, so I guess you now all of a sudden like your INTL community? What was this change of heart? Before it was, "Thanks THS, you're the only one who really understand why I shut it down." Now it's " ", and then ban.

Grow up.

-THS
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Reply 8 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 12:41:33 PM)
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Nevermind. I'll let someone else figure it out. ^^^
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
C
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Reply 9 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 12:44:09 PM)
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Uh... What?
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler. He did a lot. But don't we all wish he woulda just stayed home and gotten stoned?


LEEROY JENKINS!
STFU, biatch
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Reply 10 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 12:48:05 PM)
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Quoted from Limp:
Uh... What?


Ignoring people is rude. They won't put up with that shit in the army, private.

-THS
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Reply 11 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 01:49:27 PM)
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I think we need to call in the National Guard to this thread.
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Reply 12 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 02:03:17 PM)
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Excuse my lack of scientific knowledge, but what if you held a mirror to it?
STFU, biatch
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Reply 13 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 02:05:39 PM)
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Quoted from Too Good For You:
Excuse my lack of scientific knowledge, but what if you held a mirror to it?


the satellite would blow up, good job terrorist
C
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Reply 14 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 02:45:37 PM)
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Quoted from Too Good For You:
Excuse my lack of scientific knowledge, but what if you held a mirror to it?


I imagine the microwave would go through it.

Paging Science Brad.
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler. He did a lot. But don't we all wish he woulda just stayed home and gotten stoned?


LEEROY JENKINS!
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Reply 15 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 02:50:51 PM)
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When it is war all bets are off. Countrys are always going to research new weapons in the hopes of getting the upper hand on the enemy, in new and compact ways. The results of this now leads the way for the sharks and laserbeams division....well maybe not
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Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 16 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 03:18:08 PM)
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Thanks Tyr, you understand. Fair enough, I guess..that my comment provoked a somewhat emotional and negative reaction from someone in the US Military - your life is currently on the line and im sure any toy that'll kill your foes and keep them from killing you is welcomed.

I'm not earning my wage working out how to kill people or do the bidding of a government working with fixed intelligence. I'm a relatively free individual who has no interest in learning how to kill people to earn money and im sick of the Industrial Military Complex being allowed to develop whatever it wants in America and yet stomp around the world telling everyone else they arent allowed war toys that your own country and England developed 50 years ago, or better yet, making shit up so you can invade the one with the least big bombs and the most potential for moneymaking. So my vested interest is in peace alone, not peace via extreme violence. I dont believe it can be attained via inventing new and more efficient ways of killing whoever disgrees with you.

The thing in Iraq is nothing that has brought any good to it's people at all, the only people doing well are the engineers and insurgents and it's proven that Bush lied to get the war going. So, what gives the US Government and Military the right to create disgusting weapons that can incinerate people in seconds (keep in mind the HIGHER settings are what will be used during war, which is the primary theatre for this new toy) when their own morality is so damaged by the dross of big business and personal vendetta? If you only seek to put a positive spin on the actions of your bosses and all the evidence that not only suggests, but PROVES duplicity, then dog help you and us all.



Everybody’s got a secret, Sonny
Something that they just can’t face
Some folks spend their whole lives tryin’ to keep it
They carry it with `em every step that they take
Till some day they just cut it loose— cut it loose or let it drag `em down
Where no one asks any questions, or looks too long in your face
In the darkness on the edge of town

This reply was last edited on 07-26-05 04:30:49 PM by Snowy.
Science Brad
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Reply 17 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 03:46:21 PM)
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A nice block of metal or water will do a handy job of defeating this weapon.

So long as the metal sheet has 'holes or dents' 1/8th the size of the wave or smaller, it'll be fine.

So metal mesh with holes of 0.3 centimeters (you can see through those) will block 95GHz microwaves.
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This reply was last edited on 07-26-05 03:54:23 PM by Science Brad.
Amiodarone
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Reply 18 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 05:03:35 PM)
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It's not being developed to kill people. It's purpose is to avoid killing people. Right now if you're at a check point and someone doesn't something weird, they get shot and they die. What if that person wasn't actually a threat and a civilian was killed? People bitch about civilans being killed and then bitch about methods to stop it. This disables the person so they can't do anything, but doesn't kill them. That's it's entire point. If they were doing it to kill people, why not stick with bullets or bombs? They're a lot harder to defend yourself against.
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Reply 19 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 05:12:35 PM)
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Does it increase the risk of cancer? Microwaving always seemed a little shifty to me.

Also, this is on the lowest power setting. What happens if they put it on a higher one? How much can this actually destroy?
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Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 20 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 05:17:40 PM)
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Yeah, I mentioned that it was publically a non-lethal weapon. Who knows what other 'top secret' models have been developed. The tests sound far from conclusive and I shudder to think how many animals they tested this on to lethal result before it reached the stage where they tested it upon military personnel. And my comment is on the US propensity to believe they have the right to develop whatever weapon they like, because they are apparently the sole purveyors of truth and freedom on this planet.

Everybody’s got a secret, Sonny
Something that they just can’t face
Some folks spend their whole lives tryin’ to keep it
They carry it with `em every step that they take
Till some day they just cut it loose— cut it loose or let it drag `em down
Where no one asks any questions, or looks too long in your face
In the darkness on the edge of town
C
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Reply 21 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 05:44:50 PM)
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Quoted from Better than those other Girls:
Yeah, I mentioned that it was publically a non-lethal weapon. Who knows what other 'top secret' models have been developed. The tests sound far from conclusive and I shudder to think how many animals they tested this on to lethal result before it reached the stage where they tested it upon military personnel. And my comment is on the US propensity to believe they have the right to develop whatever weapon they like, because they are apparently the sole purveyors of truth and freedom on this planet.


Well, your country did pull all 60 of it's troops that were in Iraq out last September. So, ah, what're you doing?

God, speculation is one thing, but being a plain dumbass about things and making accusations with no factual basis is another. Do you honestly think your own government doesn't develop weaponry in a non-public environment, or even test it on defenseless animals. They're animals. Yeah, it sucks, but I'd rather watch one of them die than another human.

If you actually read the article you see that the use in war that you speak of is also controlling riots, not going out and killing whatever foreigner with a painful burst of energy. Honestly, it's that or we just keep shooting people's heads off when we suspect they're doing something wrong. Remember London? Oh yeah, I'm sure that guys family wishes he would have been hit with that to make him stop rather than shooting him in the head, but that would mean some poor little animals may or may not have died during testing. My God, the device isn't made for killing people, OKAY?! IT DOESN'T SAY THAT IN THE ARTICLE. IT'S CROWD CONTROL. NOT PEOPLE KILLER. We call people who strap bombs to themselves and blow up our civilians evil because it's a shitty thing to do, but you wouldn't understand that, what with your country not really having to deal with that. Wait until thousands of innocents die in your country for no damn reason and then maybe you'll be able to understand the concept, but honestly, I don't think it's that hard to get your fucking head around.

If you'll recall correctly the United States didn't "meddle in the affairs" of some country that had "tiny quantities of anthrax." We were acting under the (false) assumption that they had weapons of mass destruction, besides anthrax. Even then, you can't deny that Iraq was sort of a shitty place to be with a batshit crazy ruler. Remember that whole genocide thing he did? Yeah, but I guess we only invaded because of the anthrax, right? And we did the people in that country no good? Yeah, I bet they're all thinking to themselves, "gee, I wish Saddam was still here so we'd still be embargoed and he'd just get all the shit that got in and torture and kill us whenever we complained." Wait, I bet they're not.

Yeah, "blah blah anti-US"

Fuck you.
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler. He did a lot. But don't we all wish he woulda just stayed home and gotten stoned?


LEEROY JENKINS!
Snowy
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i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

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Reply 22 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 06:23:52 PM)
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Quoted from Limp:


Well, your country did pull all 60 of it's troops that were in Iraq out last September. So, ah, what're you doing?
Protecting our people via non-violent means, presently. They were engineers and medical staff.

Quoted from Limp:

God, speculation is one thing, but being a plain dumbass about things and making accusations with no factual basis is another.


Actually it's been proven via the link I provided that America fixed the intelligence on Iraq. It's not speculation anymore. What else do you think they're prepared to do to advance their own goals, if Bush doesnt mind lying to his entire country during a State of the Union address to hype up the fear factor?

Quoted from Limp:

Do you honestly think your own government doesn't develop weaponry in a non-public environment, or even test it on defenseless animals.


The NZ government doesnt make weapons of any kind, we buy from other countries. You said something about accusations with no factual basis?

Quoted from Limp:

If you actually read the article you see that the use in war that you speak of is also controlling riots, not going out and killing whatever foreigner with a painful burst of energy.


And if you read my posts you'll see I acknowledge that this is both a weapon of war and method for controlling the unruly via non-lethal means. It's also apparent that it hasnt been tested on humans a hell of a lot. I guess they can do that when America starts it's next war!

Quoted from Limp:
Honestly, it's that or we just keep shooting people's heads off when we suspect they're doing something wrong.


Yeah I know, you lot are a violent bunch when afraid.

Quoted from Limp:
OKAY?! IT DOESN'T SAY THAT IN THE ARTICLE. IT'S CROWD CONTROL. NOT PEOPLE KILLER.


It can quite easily become such a device which is what many other articles on the subject extrapolate upon. There are plenty of biological weapons that purport to be non-lethal.

The point of my comments is to point out that America is apparently allowed to develop whatever the fuck it likes, lethal and non-lethal, while it conducts unjust wars upon people who can barely defend themselves at the merest hint of such technologies in the hands of those it disapproves of. I think that is a sound enough comment to be making. Given the fact that your country has continually meddled covertly (and has been caught out many times, plenty of information on the Iran Contra scandal hanging around, or for something more recent and insidious check out America getting busted for trying to fuck with the Carribean energy deals. All documented.) in the affairs of other nations and caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people via these policies (see South America) I dont think America has the right to develop anything it desires. You do not have the moral high ground to make such a call on your own. Not anymore. Checks and balances are needed.

Quoted from Limp:
We call people who strap bombs to themselves and blow up our civilians evil because it's a shitty thing to do, but you wouldn't understand that, what with your country not really having to deal with that.


Once again, if you read my posts with a dispassionate eye you'd see me call those people JUST AS EVIL as the urge to keep developing new and more efficient means with which to kill people (this comment is just as valid, even tho the agent provocateur of this article is SUPPOSEDLY non-lethal technology your country is the largest manufactuer of killing weapons in the world and certainly the most willing to use all of that technology to date.

Quoted from Limp:
Wait until thousands of innocents die in your country for no damn reason


There was a reason, crazy people were angry with your country and dont have a nice big fat military with which to invade and take you over, so they use shock tactics instead.

Quoted from Limp:
...and then maybe you'll be able to understand the concept, but honestly, I don't think it's that hard to get your fucking head around.


Just because we do not agree doesnt mean I am stupid. I dont believe peace can be achieved via war, via silencing your opposition and stepping on the already downtrodden.

Quoted from Limp:
If you'll recall correctly the United States didn't "meddle in the affairs" of some country that had "tiny quantities of anthrax." We were acting under the (false) assumption that they had weapons of mass destruction, besides anthrax.


It's been proven that America itself fixed the intelligence that said Iraq was an imminent threat. They'd known for years he had sweet fuck all WMD, Bush had seen the intelligence that said this and had already decided he wanted a war. For what reason, if there was a tenuous-at-best link to the WTC bombers? For what reason would he follow a link so vague when the man he ACTUALLY should have been after was considered, and I quote, 'Not very important'. I thought catching the people who killed so many innocent folks was the most important thing, not advancing your own private desire to take over Iraq. Read the memo sometime, try following the link provided earlier.

Quoted from Limp:
Even then, you can't deny that Iraq was sort of a shitty place to be with a batshit crazy ruler. Remember that whole genocide thing he did?


Remember how George Bush Senior paid to keep Saddam in power so he'd buy American weapons and fight a 10 year war against Iran? Remember how back then Saddam was just as evil and nobody gave a shit, they actually PAID him to keep doing it? Remember the same thing happened, via the same Bush, with a certain Usama Bin Laden?

Quoted from Limp:
Yeah, I bet they're all thinking to themselves, "gee, I wish Saddam was still here so we'd still be embargoed and he'd just get all the shit that got in and torture and kill us whenever we complained." Wait, I bet they're not.


I bet a lot of them are.

Quoted from Limp:


Yeah, "blah blah anti-US"

Fuck you.


Maybe bomb me if I keep disagreeing and providing you with uncomfortable facts. Or microwave me into silence i'm a serial-killer :)

Everybody’s got a secret, Sonny
Something that they just can’t face
Some folks spend their whole lives tryin’ to keep it
They carry it with `em every step that they take
Till some day they just cut it loose— cut it loose or let it drag `em down
Where no one asks any questions, or looks too long in your face
In the darkness on the edge of town

This reply was last edited on 07-26-05 06:33:08 PM by Snowy.
C
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Reply 23 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 07:08:15 PM)
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Quoted from Better than those other Girls:
Protecting our people via non-violent means, presently. They were engineers and medical staff.

So, doing jack shit? Yeah, thanks for playing. Doesn't seem like they'd be doing anything violent over there if they were engineers and medical staff.

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Actually it's been proven via the link I provided that America fixed the intelligence on Iraq. It's not speculation anymore. What else do you think they're prepared to do to advance their own goals, if Bush doesnt mind lying to his entire country during a State of the Union address to hype up the fear factor?
That link doesn't say the intelligence was fixed, only that regardless of what happened we were planning to use force, which if you loop back to the whole genocide thing, I'm pretty fucking sure that's acceptable. Honestly, do you think any nation's leaders are always entirely truthful? I don't agree with the way Bush handled the situation, but that really doesn't matter now, does it?

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The NZ government doesnt make weapons of any kind, we buy from other countries.

So you just endorse their research and development by other countries by importing them. Way to keep the moral high ground there.

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And if you read my posts you'll see I acknowledge that this is both a weapon of war and method for controlling the unruly via non-lethal means. It's also apparent that it hasnt been tested on humans a hell of a lot. I guess they can do that when America starts it's next war!

It had three seperate tests on humans and isn't expected to be in any sort of use until AT LEAST 2006, I think there's still more time to test it. It's not like they're mixing a bunch of random chemicals and hoping the gas doesn't kill people. And, oh gee, what's this:
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(keep in mind the HIGHER settings are what will be used during war, which is the primary theatre for this new toy)


SOMETHING'S NOT MESHING.

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Yeah I know, you lot are a violent bunch when afraid.

Firstly, that was Great Britain, not us. Secondly, if your country had just experience incredibly violent terrorist attacks and you were in the midst of another one (admittedly, it was failing), don't you think your police force might use lethal force to bring down someone they thought was trying to harm more civilians, especially, when you lack another good way to bring them down without possible setting off a bomb, effectively bringing their plan to a head? Yeah, probably so. Good way to just go ahead and toss out an insult then act like you've got all the moral high ground.

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[19:18] elysiumfyre: you know, for someone who i was told so much negative crap about..i had actually come to consider you a decent guy on my own
[19:19] elysiumfyre: despite what certain folk told me that poisoned my attitude to you when i first arrived
[19:19] thisnameisfaux: well, when I'm not having my hotbutton pushed, I am.
[19:19] elysiumfyre: well the measure of a person is in how they react under duress
[19:19] thisnameisfaux: that's great.
[19:20] elysiumfyre: nevermind. i liked you. enjoy making political commentary personal.


Gee, sort of seem like by errantly throwing out comments insulting an entire country you're sort of making things personal, you raging cunt. Christ, don't even get me started on "despite what other people had said." Fuck you. If other people don't like me, that's fine, but by God I'm pretty fucking sure that not just a ton of people are going to go around and talk trash about me to some overzealous, hypercritical internet personality.

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It can quite easily become such a device which is what many other articles on the subject extrapolate upon. There are plenty of biological weapons that purport to be non-lethal.


And plenty of them are. Most things, when used without moderation, are lethal. Water is, for Christ's sake.

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The point of my comments is to point out that America is apparently allowed to develop whatever the fuck it likes, lethal and non-lethal, while it conducts unjust wars upon people who can barely defend themselves at the merest hint of such technologies in the hands of those it disapproves of.
We didn't start a fucking war against any people. If you'll recall, we aren't going through slaughtering civilians like those people using "shock tactics" are. We removed someone we believed to be supporting terrorism along with doing plenty of other heinous shit from power.

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I think that is a sound enough comment to be making. Given the fact that your country has continually meddled covertly (and has been caught out many times, plenty of information on the Iran Contra scandal hanging around, or for something more recent and insidious check out America getting busted for trying to fuck with the Carribean energy deals. All documented.) in the affairs of other nations and caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people via these policies (see South America) I dont think America has the right to develop anything it desires. You do not have the moral high ground to make such a call on your own. Not anymore. Checks and balances are needed.


Yeah, because isolationism worked so well when World War II was starting. Oh wai-


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Once again, if you read my posts with a dispassionate eye you'd see me call those people JUST AS EVIL as the urge to keep developing new and more efficient means with which to kill people (this comment is just as valid, even tho the agent provocateur of this article is SUPPOSEDLY non-lethal technology your country is the largest manufactuer of killing weapons in the world and certainly the most willing to use all of that technology to date.

It's not valid. It says nothing about using them lethally. Regardless, developing nonlethal crowd control, YES EVEN NONLETHAL IN WAR, isn't quite on par with blowing innocent people up.

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There was a reason, crazy people were angry with your country and dont have a nice big fat military with which to invade and take you over, so they use shock tactics instead.
Thanks for the imperialism insinuation. If you think that's a valid reason to blow up innocents then you're an idiot.

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Just because we do not agree doesnt mean I am stupid. I dont believe peace can be achieved via war, via silencing your opposition and stepping on the already downtrodden.

Oh. My. God. Way to miss the fucking point. So instead of going after the bastards who did it and their supporters we should just sit back and try to play nice nice. Shut the fuck up, you damn hippy.

Quoted from Limp:
If you'll recall correctly the United States didn't "meddle in the affairs" of some country that had "tiny quantities of anthrax." We were acting under the (false) assumption that they had weapons of mass destruction, besides anthrax.


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It's been proven that America itself fixed the intelligence that said Iraq was an imminent threat.

No, it hasn't. The Downing Street Memo doesn't provide a factual basis for most of what you're claiming. Even if they weren't a threat to us, they were a threat to, say, the Kurds.
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They'd known for years he had sweet fuck all WMD, Bush had seen the intelligence that said this and had already decided he wanted a war. For what reason, if there was a tenuous-at-best link to the WTC bombers? For what reason would he follow a link so vague when the man he ACTUALLY should have been after was considered, and I quote, 'Not very important'. I thought catching the people who killed so many innocent folks was the most important thing, not advancing your own private desire to take over Iraq. Read the memo sometime, try following the link provided earlier.

I read the memo. Nice overextension of the evidence there, chap. Most of the rest of that paragraphy is nonsense gobbledygook, because you're just rehashing something else that wasn't true/ didn't make sense. In case you haven't noticed, taking over Iraq hasn't exactly done much for the U.S. Let's see, our gas prices are up, our military is overextended, and besides civilian contractors (WHO THE FUCK ELSE ARE WE GOING TO USE, PRE-EMPTIVE SHUT UP), no one is making ANY money on this deal.

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Remember how George Bush Senior paid to keep Saddam in power so he'd buy American weapons and fight a 10 year war against Iran? Remember how back then Saddam was just as evil and nobody gave a shit, they actually PAID him to keep doing it? Remember the same thing happened, via the same Bush, with a certain Usama Bin Laden?
Right, so instead of righting a wrong we made in the past, we should just turn out heads while they do even more evil stuff. Good one. Christ, I really hope that you don't avoid righting any wrongs you've made in the past. That's got to be a shitty way to go through life.

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I bet a lot of them are.


It was an estimate. And even then, a lot more people than that were being killed over the years due to just plain heinous shit.

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Maybe bomb me if I keep disagreeing and providing you with uncomfortable facts. Or microwave me into silence i'm a serial-killer :)


Again, fuck you.
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Doing stuff is overrated. Like Hitler. He did a lot. But don't we all wish he woulda just stayed home and gotten stoned?


LEEROY JENKINS!
Acheron
INTL Premium Member
If I die in Raleigh, at least I will die free.

is this guy acheron???????? hahaha acheron you big fag

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Reply 24 of 177 (Originally posted on: 07-26-05 09:26:51 PM)
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Why do they keep finding new and better ways to kill people and yet scream at other crazy people and call them evil for using homemade bombs?


Because they aren't us, and except for the fucking chickenhawks, we'd rather our bombs sit quietly in bunkers, while they have used their bombs against us. We didn't shoot first.

As for the Iraq situation, it was going to happen eventually. Waiting for a democratic Lebanon as a preamble to the creation of a democratic Iraq would have been more tactically sound...

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Actually it's been proven via the link I provided that America fixed the intelligence on Iraq. It's not speculation anymore. What else do you think they're prepared to do to advance their own goals, if Bush doesnt mind lying to his entire country during a State of the Union address to hype up the fear factor?
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That link doesn't say the intelligence was fixed, only that regardless of what happened we were planning to use force, which if you loop back to the whole genocide thing, I'm pretty fucking sure that's acceptable. Honestly, do you think any nation's leaders are always entirely truthful? I don't agree with the way Bush handled the situation, but that really doesn't matter now, does it?


Dude, our army people just got a new toy. Where the fuck else do you think they'll test it?

In any case, there's nothing immoral about developing weapons. Nor is it immoral to tell nations with dictatorial governments that they can't have big guns. How the hell would you like it if suddenly every little country in your back yard started building bombs? Did the explosions in Bali not hit close enough to home? This isn't a fucking nuclear weapon. This isn't a chemical weapon. This isn't a mind control divice, it's an attempt to prevent a repeat of Somalia or Iran. It's being built so that when riots happen in the middle east, they don't become typical, and fourteen year old children won't die.


Also, I never noticed anywhere in the article stating that they were going to use a higher setting in 'war'. I think it said they were developing a less lethal weapon to drive off crowds. The U.S. Military. They're learning how not to kill people, and you bitch about it. This isn't some mastermind of a congressman, this is something that the military came up with. They can't trust the government to tell them when to go to war for good reasons, so they're covering their asses.

Also, we build bombs, so that New Zealand doesn't have to. You exist without nuclear weapons, and without much of a military, because we have a sizeable one, and have used it to protect you bastards from some uppity japanese, or don't you remember the 40's? I seem to recall that it was American aircraft that neutered the japanese naval air force. It was american aircraft, american bombs, and american torpedoes that sunk the Japanese carriers off midway, that killed the best of their pilots. It was no doubt the US Navy that saved your country from Japanese occupation.

We're not perfect, we're not always right, but we've saved your ass. And there's a neighbor to the north of you, China, that's getting a little uppity.

I'll cut you a deal, we'll stop building guns and planes, and you can start learning Mandarin.
I want to be irrationally exhuberant again.
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