Username [Register?]: | Password [Lost Password?]: Save Password?
Bottom of Page
INTL v5.0 > Site Comments > Archives > Archived Forums > Bitching Battleground: The God Damned TV Channel > Fucking Quentin TARANTINO (So Dante won't have to defend his savior's name) > Viewing Thread
Also Here: 1 guest.
Page: [ 1 2 3 ] [ Thread Views: 4350 | Total Posts: 65 ]
Rate This Thread: Reply to Thread | Create New Thread | Create New Poll | Convert To Poll | Subscribe To Thread
IF0
Administrator

Hey, I was with Mary Magdalene last night....smell my finger lol

Ballkicks: (+621 / -173)
Posts: 6751 (1.081)
Reg. Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Gender: Male
(Originally posted on: 05-19-05 08:30:38 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

He made the season finale of CSI: Las Vegas fucking.. just damnit. Why'd he have to do that stupid shit? I hate his damn movies, I hate his damn sense of humor, I hate his damn gore, I hate his little artistic scenes with people standing around doing meaningless shit. He put enough little Tarentino-esque pointless things into this episode of CSI that it wasn't as good as it could have been.  WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT WITH NICK'S LITTLE DREAM?! They were pulling his fucking organs out? WHAT THE FUCK. Was there ANY reason behind that other than just so Tarentino can do the same damn gay shit he always does with blood and organs.  I just wish they hadn't used Tarentino. He took a lot of the flavor away from CSI, and threw a lot of his shit in, and it didn't mix all that well at a lot of points.
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
kayte
INTL Premium Member

How long until this becomes my new title let's count the seconds

Ballkicks: (+1019 / -241)
Posts: 4059 (0.664)
Reg. Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Gender: Female
Reply 1 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 09:55:37 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Frankly other than that one scene, which did say Hi I Am An Episode Directed By Quentin "Legend In My Own Time" Tarantino, I thought it was just like every other episode of CSI.
Alyantis
FEMALE

Ballkicks: (+89 / -25)
Posts: 1076 (0.161)
Reg. Date: Apr 2002
Location: Too close to Ein
Gender: Male
Reply 2 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 10:05:16 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quote:
I hate his damn movies, I hate his damn sense of humor, I hate his damn gore


He's different compared to most directors, and I like his movies. I guess it's the type of thing where there's not much middle ground.
I Cant Skat3: Well, I may be stupid. I'll let others decide that.
Dante

cocks in my mouth

Ballkicks: (+661 / -97)
Posts: 4779 (0.805)
Reg. Date: May 2004
Location: N by NW
Gender: Male
Reply 3 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 10:14:56 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Number One: His name is spelled "Tarantino." If you are going to criticize someone you should at least get their name correct.

Number Two: I saw the CSI episode, and it was about the same as every other (aside from some stylization), although I agree that the idea of Tarantino directing one the episodes was half-baked.

Number Three: As far as his movies go, Tarantino is directly reponsible for some of the best cinema of the 90's, and if you would rather watch Who's The Boss reruns then go right ahead.

Number Four: Attacking Tarantino's use of gore is ridiculous considering that CSI is one of the goriest shows on television. Acting as if a program that consistantly shows people being stabbed, shot and choked was ruined by a little excess blood just makes you sound like an idiot.
stumbling towards 3000
This reply was last edited on 05-19-05 11:18:44 PM by Dante.
Dante

cocks in my mouth

Ballkicks: (+661 / -97)
Posts: 4779 (0.805)
Reg. Date: May 2004
Location: N by NW
Gender: Male
Reply 4 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 10:15:08 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Double post.
stumbling towards 3000
IF0
Administrator

Hey, I was with Mary Magdalene last night....smell my finger lol

Ballkicks: (+621 / -173)
Posts: 6751 (1.081)
Reg. Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Gender: Male
Reply 5 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 10:23:00 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quoted from Dante:
Number One: His name is spelled "Tarantino." If you are going to criticize someone you should at least get their name correct.

I've seen it spelled differently enough that I don't think it makes a difference. Opinions still stand.

Quote:
Number Two: I saw the CSI episode, and it was about the same as every other (aside from some stylization), although I agree that the idea of Tarantino directing one the episodes was half-baked.
I knew a few people who had never watched Tarantino who STILL noticed differences. I sure as hell did.

Quote:
Number Three: As far as his movies go, Tarantino is directly reponsible for some of the best cinema of the 90's, and if you would rather watch Who's The Boss reruns then go right ahead.

I don't consider Tarantino's cinema to be the fucking best, by far. That's an opinion, just like MY opinion. I didn't say this was a law. So shut the fuck up trying to argue using "facts" in an opinion thread.

Quote:
Number Four: Attacking Tarantino's use of gore is ridiculous considering that CSI is one of the goriest shows on television. Acting as if a program that consistantly shows people being stabbed, shot and choked was ruined by a little excess blood just makes you sound like an idiot.

CSI's gore generally has a purpose. That thing with Stokes' dream? No point. Just wanted to show some organs being pulled out. They showed them yanking and rolling up his intestines as they pulled them out. That's easily criticizable. That wasn't a LITTLE EXCESS BLOOD - Tarantino makes it a point in his movies to intentionally show TONS of excess blood, and I'm not the first one to complain about it, so no, that's not making me an idiot.

I knew I'd get some Tarantino lovers in here who would love to get down on their knees and suck his dick because I said I hated his shit, but it's still my opinion. You're not going to convince me otherwise. I've watched his shit, given him multiple chances, and I'm not going to pretend to like it because I don't get the witty deep and meaningful thoughts behind what I see as horseshit.
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
Dante

cocks in my mouth

Ballkicks: (+661 / -97)
Posts: 4779 (0.805)
Reg. Date: May 2004
Location: N by NW
Gender: Male
Reply 6 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 10:49:59 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quoted from IF0:
Quote:
Number Three: As far as his movies go, Tarantino is directly reponsible for some of the best cinema of the 90's, and if you would rather watch Who's The Boss reruns then go right ahead.

I don't consider Tarantino's cinema to be the fucking best, by far. That's an opinion, just like MY opinion. I didn't say this was a law. So shut the fuck up trying to argue using "facts" in an opinion thread.
I never said it was a fact. Don't put words in my mouth. How about you start naming some examples of what you consider good cinema, instead of bullshitting around the fact that you are bitching about other people's high opinions of Tarantino's work, while at the same time defending to the death your right to hate him (an obvious contradiction).

Quoted from IF0:
Quote:
Number Four: Attacking Tarantino's use of gore is ridiculous considering that CSI is one of the goriest shows on television. Acting as if a program that consistantly shows people being stabbed, shot and choked was ruined by a little excess blood just makes you sound like an idiot.

CSI's gore generally has a purpose. That thing with Stokes' dream? No point. Just wanted to show some organs being pulled out.
All elements of a television show "have a point," even if it is just to piss you off or freak you out. Blood is blood, and gore is gore. All of these things are intended to effect the audience, however they accomplish this. Saying that what is easliy the most gruesome show on network primetime TV is ruined by some internal organs and blood is fucking ignorant, considering that every other scene is littered with disfigured corpses and flashbacks of realistic murders.

Quoted from IF0:
Tarantino makes it a point in his movies to intentionally show TONS of excess blood, and I'm not the first one to complain about it, so no, that's not making me an idiot.
Besides it's use for comical effect in Vol. 1 of Kill Bill, and a half-second shot of gore in the backseat of Jules' car in Pulp Fiction, blood isn't used any more in Tarantino's films then in other movies. I consider making assumptions on any director based on what narrows down to essentially ten minutes of ONE film idiotic, and I could give a fuck that you send negative karma my way for pointing this out.
stumbling towards 3000
This reply was last edited on 05-19-05 11:27:47 PM by Dante.
IF0
Administrator

Hey, I was with Mary Magdalene last night....smell my finger lol

Ballkicks: (+621 / -173)
Posts: 6751 (1.081)
Reg. Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Gender: Male
Reply 7 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 11:01:52 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

What difference does it make what I think is good cinema? It doesn't. I'm not going to pretend to be a film critic with you so you can try to show off your love for a certain producer. And.. um.. I don't give a shit about other people's high opinions of his work, that is, until you came in here spouting off your shit about it for some reason. Whatever contradiction you may see is one you came up with yourself to try and attack me, when, this shouldn't be too much of a surprise to you: YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT TO MINE YOU STUPID FUCK. And guess what? You trying to argue with me about whether or not I like Tarantino is the one of the stupidest things I've been a part of here. It doesn't make sense. I can have whatever fucking opinion I want, and it sure as hell doesn't need to be approved by Herr Dante.

No one has yet to tell me the point of pulling out intestines, tossing a lung aside, a doctor holding a heart out to a father saying "Your son had a good heart," so I consider this argument irrelevant.

I already stated that I've watched Tarantino's films, I don't like him. I don't like his movies. Dante, I don't like you either, but I've never tried to be such an arrogant shit so as to change your opinion about what fucking movies you liked.

Your opinion is irrelevant to mine. Someone having an opinion on what producer they like is not relevant to their intelligence, either, so you can quit with your "idiot" bullshit.

There's no possible way, as far as I'm concerned, for you to prove my opinion "wrong." I'm not going to start liking your little role model, so you can quit trying to argue with me about it. It's not going to change my mind.

And you got negative karma for trying to pick a fight with me in an opinion thread and for calling me an idiot for not liking Tarantino, you dumb fuck, and I'd suggest getting over it and not whining like a bitch about it in threads.
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 8 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 11:25:25 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

But Rich, that's what this forum is forrrr...whining. As much as I luv ya I think Dante did a fine job defending Tarantino. Sure it's your opinion, but it's strident and loud and bound to attract all manner of Quentin Buzzards.

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
IF0
Administrator

Hey, I was with Mary Magdalene last night....smell my finger lol

Ballkicks: (+621 / -173)
Posts: 6751 (1.081)
Reg. Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Gender: Male
Reply 9 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 11:31:23 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

I don't care if Dante defends Tarantino. I don't care if anyone does. I expected as much. However, beginning to insult me because our opinions don't agree is rather irritating.

Kayte and Alyantis managed to do just fine without trying to pick a fight and looking like an ass.
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 10 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-19-05 11:40:55 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Well I can see that he found your rather loud and rude opinion of someone he admires annoying as well *shrug* Seems pretty standard for me on this Bitch Forum that such opposition is not only allowed, but expected by most.

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
IF0
Administrator

Hey, I was with Mary Magdalene last night....smell my finger lol

Ballkicks: (+621 / -173)
Posts: 6751 (1.081)
Reg. Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Gender: Male
Reply 11 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 12:20:48 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Blah, I was in a pissed off mood and don't always see eye to eye with Dante. I specifically didn't put in the title post anything about someone that likes Taratino's work sucks or anything, because that's not the kind of thread I planned on making. It irritated me that someone STILL tried to argue with me directly about the merits and whatnot of a guy I still wouldn't like even if he was voted #1 person in the world. If I overreacted, I apologize to Dante, but I was incredibly annoyed that someone was trying to pick a fight with me that I saw as pointless, esp. by calling me an idiot.
Adopt a leggo my eggo ifo.
Sixten Sparre
pater la bourgeoisie

wears neckerchiefs

Ballkicks: (+1184 / -307)
Posts: 4672 (0.716)
Reg. Date: Sep 2002
Location: Funen Island
Gender: Male
Reply 12 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 02:31:28 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

ok, if0 has a shitty taste in movies, the end.
Tough, Unique, Bad, Bodacious, and Sassy.
Pertti Susilainen
Head Priest

mr. sukkit

Ballkicks: (+924 / -57)
Posts: 7104 (1.103)
Reg. Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mayrit
Gender: Male
Reply 13 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 04:13:34 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

The scene where the bride is chopping legs in Kill Bill vol.1 is not just gore, but also artistically beautiful.

There, I had to say that. I don't really like CSI that much.
"Hwt, he on a tid e he inne bi, ne bi hrinen mid y storme s wintres; ac t bi an eagan bryhtm and t lste fc, ac he sona of wintre on one winter eft cyme hwt r foregange, oe hwt r fylige, we ne cunnen."
"Lo, he, in the time that he is inside, is not touched by the storm of the winter, but that is an eye's winking and the least time, but he straightway comes back from winter into winter, what thereto may precede or what to it may follow, we do not know."
goatsnacks
Administrators

"When I decide to brush (maybe once a week)" -Snook, INTL's #1 Scrub

Ballkicks: (+512 / -167)
Posts: 3232 (0.538)
Reg. Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Gender: Male
Reply 14 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 08:10:07 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

but dante I love Who's the Boss?MAGUSMAGUSMAGUSMAGUS
'And who do you think that guy was?...Emelio Esteves!'
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 15 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 08:44:05 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

I want Charles In Charge of Me.

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
drahnier
INTL VIP
:iceburn:

Ballkicks: (+886 / -232)
Posts: 7744 (1.154)
Reg. Date: Mar 2002
Location: purple haze
Gender: Female
Reply 16 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 08:58:09 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

CSI was interesting when it started, but after however many fucking years it's been on of seeing the same things in every episode over and over again, i'm pretty sick of it.

Edit: Oh, and the way they made spin-offs with exactly the same content as the original show except that the actors look different, to squeeze as much cash as possible out of the idea before they've beaten it to death, is fucking ridiculous.


I especially dislike CSI: New York.
DRAHNIER
This reply was last edited on 05-20-05 09:03:12 AM by drahnier.
C
Administrator

Level 90 Ginger

Ballkicks: (+723 / -204)
Posts: 6647 (1.005)
Reg. Date: Jun 2002
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
Reply 17 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 10:00:23 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quoted from IF0:
I hate his damn movies, I hate his damn sense of humor, I hate his damn gore, I hate his little artistic scenes with people standing around doing meaningless shit. He put enough little Tarentino-esque pointless things into this episode of CSI that it wasn't as good as it could have been.


This is why I didn't watch it. That, and because I was driving. But mostly because I don't like Tarantino.


Dante, quit picking a fight because you think the movies are great. Whatever, I think he's a crappy director, some of my friends think he's the best thing since sliced bread, and you know what? We still get along superfine even though my taste is inferior.

Snowy, please, for the love of God, don't declare winners in arguments over the internet.

Drahnier, have you seen Miami? It's even worse than New York.
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Senator Organa eagerly exclaims, "We'll take the girl! We always wanted a baby girl!" We just laughed, "Yeah...let's give Luke the shitty deal."
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 18 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 11:02:46 AM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Chimp, please, fuck off. I've seen you completely lose your nut on the internet, I think im quite entitled to publically appreciate a good argument without you trying to sound like Yoda.

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
Skye
INTL Premium Member
Droog Queen

I love Skye

Ballkicks: (+781 / -120)
Posts: 5306 (0.828)
Reg. Date: Jan 2003
Location: adulthood
Gender: Male
Reply 19 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 12:16:57 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quoted from Snowy:
But Rich, that's what this forum is forrrr...whining. As much as I luv ya I think Dante did a fine job defending Tarantino. Sure it's your opinion, but it's strident and loud and bound to attract all manner of Quentin Buzzards.
Quoted from Snowy:
Well I can see that he found your rather loud and rude opinion of someone he admires annoying as well *shrug* Seems pretty standard for me on this Bitch Forum that such opposition is not only allowed, but expected by most.


Somehow these two posts contradict each other. You say the forum's for whining, Rich is essentially whining about Tarantino ruining an episode of CSI, and then it's a "loud and rude opinion" because someone disagrees with Rich's whining. The whole situation didn't become rude until Dante nitpicked about the spelling of Tarantino's name (good defense, Dante, by the way) and called IF0 an idiot by stating and restating that CSI uses gore in its episode so he can't be annoyed about it.

And Dante never did explain the point of the excessive gore (if such gore existed in the episode), so I think whatever retaliation he received was deserved.
When Troth asked Senich whether any of his supervisors had ever told him to stop swearing, he recalled that Corky Krollman, who was Senich's supervisor for a time, told him on several occasions, "'Senich, clean up your fucking act.'"
With that, Leighton's head fell to the table.
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 20 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 12:23:45 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

omg yah rite fag lol Whining can be done in many ways, including loud and rudely. I'm merely repeating what Rich already realises, that the strength of his bitch attracted the verbose little flies. Nothing wrong with either Rich's rant or Dante's rebuttal.

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
Mr Excitable
INTL Premium Member
My girlfriend is the Michelin Man

Ballkicks: (+514 / -60)
Posts: 3218 (0.502)
Reg. Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Gender: Male
Reply 21 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 12:24:12 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

I actually enjoyed the show last night. Well I only watched CSI last night because he was the director. I really can't say anything, I have actually postponed going out and partying because a new law and order was on.
www.the-party.org
This reply was last edited on 05-20-05 12:31:57 PM by Mr Excitable.
Snowy
INTL Premium Member

i always try to make a statement with my fashion...thats why today i wore a crop top with a pic of richard nixon captioned: growl at sweat

Ballkicks: (+899 / -313)
Posts: 5399 (0.956)
Reg. Date: Feb 2005
Location: Antipodes
Gender: Female
Reply 22 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 12:27:08 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Jerry Orbach lives on in our hearts, dude!

The fear and the yearning
It's gonna eat you alive
C
Administrator

Level 90 Ginger

Ballkicks: (+723 / -204)
Posts: 6647 (1.005)
Reg. Date: Jun 2002
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
Reply 23 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 01:24:20 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

Quoted from Snowy:
Chimp, please, fuck off. I've seen you completely lose your nut on the internet, I think im quite entitled to publically appreciate a good argument without you trying to sound like Yoda.


What the hell does me "losing my nut" have to do with this? As long as we're bringing up irrelevant information, you're a woman in the southern hemisphere, I think you should be sold into slavery.

Excuse me, into slavery, you should be sold...

the hell does that mean, I talk like Yoda?
I got hit in the nuts by one girl and before the pain kicked in I yelled, "Abortion!" and hit her in the stomach.

Senator Organa eagerly exclaims, "We'll take the girl! We always wanted a baby girl!" We just laughed, "Yeah...let's give Luke the shitty deal."
IB
Stays True to His Name

I should die

Ballkicks: (+171 / -76)
Posts: 721 (0.108)
Reg. Date: May 2002
Location:
Gender: Unspecified
Reply 24 of 65 (Originally posted on: 05-20-05 01:47:23 PM)
Edit Post | Edit History | Send PM | Change Title | Reply w/Quote | Report Post | Ignore | Show All Posts

i like tarantino's movies, and i thought the dream sequence thing was fucking retarded. the rest was great.
Quick Reply
Page: [ 1 2 3 ] Reply to Thread | Create New Thread | Create New Poll | Convert To Poll | Subscribe To Thread
[ Thread Views: 4350 | Total Posts: 65 ]