Sunn O)))
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14 year RP master
 Zan-beef
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Reg. Date: Mar 2002
Location: Laputa
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Reply 21 of 70 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 10:16:56 PM)
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Quote: I usually consider a debate forum a place where people spar intellectually and information is passed on via that..im not here to teach so much as to try and throw opposing views down on the mat.
I don't intend to teach either, only to inform. I speak through knowledge and understanding gained, and I like debating as it allows me to gain the understanding of another person. I like attempting to understand the opinions of others.
Quote: There's plenty of Earth that hasnt adapted to the impact humans have on the environment, we could look at the effects of deforestation, toxic waste dumping and nuclear test sites as prime examples. Or we could look at Africa and see what devestation elephants were causing due to the encroachment of humans on their natural territories, this greatly exacerbated the effects of natural drought and required that human gamekeepers cull herds so that the environment could support both human and animal.
What about the cases where what you would consider 'nature' impacted the environment to which the adaptations are very slowly adapting (in terms of a human timeline), as in the case of glaciers, excessive heat, elemental physics, geographic boundries, and so on. I do not deny humans have caused both slow and fast occuring impacts on the environment; however, deforestation, toxic waste dumping, and the other incidents you pointed out will slowly be adapted to by other organisms. Certainly, organisms will become extinct, while other's profit from their demise, but adaptation (while it may be long) will occur. Humans tend to speed things up, yet we are still acting under 'nature.'
Quote: For everything I say there is of course an opposite argument, 'these' are useful and of course we are animals and as such are a part of 'nature'. But I have enough evidence to support my claim that humans can also be and act outside of nature and what is good for the ecosystem..in the short term and the long term. The incidence of feral cats invading an unprepared ecosystem is one such event and I fully support the killing of such creatures so that their influx wont decimate the natural order of things.
This is perhaps the part of your argument which I find strange. You claimed earlier that to state that humans commit actions which are 'natural' is to claim that humans are speaking from the lips of God itself; yet, you now claim that humans are outside of nature, and are therefore 'special' in some way or form. If humans are outside of 'nature' but can still effect nature, wouldn't that justify as speaking from the lips of God? How can you be both a part of nature, and yet remain ultra vires to it? Either you're a factor which effects, contorts and helps control the material world, or you're not. If you're not, then what do you currently think you are doing? Asserting omnipotence?
Quote: I find it strange that someone who hunts would only recognise a personal need to do so and not to control feral populations of creatures that might very well impact on natural game reserves via sudden changes in the ecosystem..but it seems you are more of a sit back and watch kinda personality and I am more guns blazing.
I've never stated I'm against the hunting of feral cats, only that I wouldn't support it. I've hunted not for sport, or to control a feral population, but because a few friends decided it upon themselves that they'd like to go hunting. Hunting in itself is another form of an effect on the ecosystem. By hunting, we are inflicting what we want on the ecosystem, asserting our influence on it, yet we are still under the power of 'natural processes.' If we either hunt or sit back, even for the sake of controlling a feral population, the ecosystem will adapt through 'natural processes,' even without our added influence. Hence a reason why we are still a part of 'nature,' yet not outside it.
I'm guns blazing, yet I'm guns blazing after consideration. Like I said, I'm not against it, I won't be the first person on the ride out ready to get me some kitties. It has been more about whether or not feral cats 'belong' than whether or not we should hunt them like we do with deer, bears, rabbits and other animals.
"Oh Joe Cocker"
(you like Joe's Cocker, don't ya?)
"It's up where it belongs."
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