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greenidentity
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(Originally posted on: 04-29-05 05:11:04 AM)
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So, some politician in our state is lobbying for chemical castration for sex offenders. For anyone who cares to look: http://www.hometownsource.com/capitol/2005/february/18castration.html

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I am vehemently opposed to it. I think that castration is misdirected and stems from great lack of understanding of the mindset of sexual predators. A sexual predator/offender has a sickness. No I'm not saying "Oh poor them with thier undeserved afflictions." I'm saying there is something very mentally and possibly chemically wrong with these people. It's deeply ingrained in them, it goes further than a simple sick sexual desire.

Look at murderers. What body part do we have to blame killing people on? None other than the brain and personal background, as far as I know. The problem is not the fact that the sexual predator has a penis. Cutting off the penis is not going to necessarily stop a person from committing a sexual crime again. And while most sexual predators ARE men, what about the women sexual predators? What about the men who do not use or want to use thier penises to commit any illegal sexual acts? It just pisses me off. Becuase it reinforces to me that in our society, instead of trying to deal with a problem, we need to take the easy way out. Or cover it up instead of trying to understand it, and then deal with it properly.

Thoughts-opinions-pokeholes-discuss.
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Reply 1 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 06:30:09 AM)
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One 10-year study conducted in Europe showed the percentage of chemically castrated pedophiles repeating attacks on children at about three percent, said Emmer.

In a nontreated control group, the repeat offense level was at 50 percent, said Emmer. “I think this is the path we’re headed,” said Emmer of chemical castration.


I'm all for it. Pedophiles are lucky they arent sent to Death Row as it is. I have nada sympathy for them and I can see that chemical castration has a positive result on the rate of reoffending from that article. I'll do some more research on that but yeah, im all for it.
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Reply 2 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 07:38:19 AM)
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I think the real problem will lie in who gets to say which sex offender gets castrated, and which one doesnt.

It seems like a great idea for say a simple rapist, but a pedophile is so much more of a psychological thing. Sure it would maybe stop them from doing it again, but what about them? They're fucked.

And it doesn't make sense to get an eye for an eye. Maybe our taxes could also go towards hiring some psychologist instead of scientist so we could fix the offender, not simply punish them.

Though I'm sure if they really started enforcing this a lot of potential offenders might lay off. The one's that continue to do so would simply of 'had their warning'. Especially if its only a punishment for repeat offenders.
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Reply 3 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:01:43 AM)
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If the crime meets a severe enough criteria there wont be terribly many semantics involved. Most pedophillia isint committed by people with psychological disorders, unless you think getting turned on by little kids is something they are afflicted with and dont simply find enticing. No wait, I guess it is 'sick' but I dont believe it's an illness like schitzophrenia. I think a lot of men just find sex with children an enjoyable prospect. Chemical castration sounds like a far more effective treatment than tinkering away with them under group and singuar therapy - %5 vs. %50 is pretty compelling data. I think gentle therapies have had plenty of time to prove themselves effective - and they have failed.
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greenidentity
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Reply 4 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:04:32 AM)
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Quoted from William Wilson:

Though I'm sure if they really started enforcing this a lot of potential offenders might lay off. The one's that continue to do so would simply of 'had their warning'. Especially if its only a punishment for repeat offenders.


I agreed with everything you said up until here. In my opinion, a threat of castration will not sway a predators decision to do crime. Police don't stand in criminals ways, and there are countries with much harsher punishments for shit than us and that still doesn't stop people. I highly doubt a simple threat of something will suddenly make them gain control of thier urges. Hell, some may even find fun in dodging it. Many criminals take joy in their crimes, all kinds, rapists and robbers alike.
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Reply 5 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:08:56 AM)
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Just to butt in here, I'm not sure it's 'the threat' we're talking about here..tho im sure they'll use that angle. It's more that great rate of success with reoffenders that'll be a key angle and be most useful. For the people yet to indulge their sick fantasies, perhaps the prospect of having yourself castrated will make them err on the side of caution, and in the cases of the ones who simply dont care...we can count on law enforcement to catch 'em and for society to permanently remove their ability to hurt children in this manner again.
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Reply 6 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:18:48 AM)
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Quoted from greenidentity:
Quoted from William Wilson:

Though I'm sure if they really started enforcing this a lot of potential offenders might lay off. The one's that continue to do so would simply of 'had their warning'. Especially if its only a punishment for repeat offenders.


I agreed with everything you said up until here. In my opinion, a threat of castration will not sway a predators decision to do crime. Police don't stand in criminals ways, and there are countries with much harsher punishments for shit than us and that still doesn't stop people. I highly doubt a simple threat of something will suddenly make them gain control of thier urges. Hell, some may even find fun in dodging it. Many criminals take joy in their crimes, all kinds, rapists and robbers alike.
Yeah that makes sense. We still have murderers, right? They know what killing a person means (death or life imprisonment). I really could see how a law like this might actually be more exciting for sex offenders. Make it more of a game.

But what happens to the three percent that still continue to offend? Do we cut off their hands next? Or wait maybe just poke out their eyes?
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Reply 7 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:27:24 AM)
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Put them back in jail? Permanently.
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greenidentity
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Reply 8 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:32:15 AM)
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That would be my choice too, but that's a whole different thread topic.
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Reply 9 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:39:30 AM)
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I find this argument incredibly ironic. If anybody you know was directly harmed by a child molester, I'm sure that you would probably have a completely different opinion. Even if it wasn't guaranteed to work you'd want something to try and stop them from doing it again.

I know this would probably be unconstitutional, but I'm in favor of real castration if they're proven guilty beyond any remote doubt (similar to a death penalty case.) If the offender didn't have balls, he wouldn't be able to get any sexual gratification, problem solved.

I know some of you would say I'm not on the side of men, but these offenders are not men. In my opinion sexual offenders like this should barely qualify as human beings.
greenidentity
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Reply 10 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 09:05:14 AM)
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Quoted from mmac:
I find this argument incredibly ironic. If anybody you know was directly harmed by a child molester, I'm sure that you would probably have a completely different opinion.


That was a bad assumption on your part.
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Reply 11 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 09:46:48 AM)
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You don't need genitalia to strip a kid naked and fondle them.

I'm just sayin'.
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Reply 12 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 10:19:19 AM)
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Quoted from bicentennialman:
You don't need genitalia to strip a kid naked and fondle them.

I'm just sayin'.


Valid statement. From everything that I've ever heard though:

1. Pedophilia is still a sex related crime.
2. Most sex offenders have exceptionally high levels of Testosterone.
3. Castration stops the production of testosterone in males.

This is why Romans would castrate men to become guards for their harems(eunuchs). I could be wrongon any of these points, please tell me if I am.

Quoted from greenidentity:

That was a bad assumption on your part.


Are you speaking on experience, or just the idea that it might not bother everyone?
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Reply 13 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 12:15:47 PM)
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I would be for the death penalty for pedophiles and probably rapists, if it weren't for the long drawn out process. I think castration is the next best thing. If, however, it took ten years to get through the appeal process just to castrate some pervert, I don't think it would be worth it.

I'm not sure what to do with the female offenders, greenidentity raises a good point there. We do live in a society where equality matters a lot, so something would have to be worked out.
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Reply 14 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 12:33:02 PM)
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Quoted from Kukuruznik:

I'm not sure what to do with the female offenders, greenidentity raises a good point there. We do live in a society where equality matters a lot, so something would have to be worked out.


Look at the percentage of female pedophiles compared to male pedophiles, I think that we can all agree that male sex criminals are a much bigger problem in our society. However I'm not saying that female pedophiles don't exist, anybody that watches CNN knows about all the school teachers.

I don't know if chemical castration would work on a female, anyone?
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Reply 15 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:13:01 PM)
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You're just jumping backwards with a thought process similar to "Take out their frontal lobe, problem solved." It's a barbaric thought that strays from the idea that sex offenders can rehabilitate and live normal lives...and they can, and have. Strip away your fucking morals for a second and focus on the fact that the majority of these cases stem from psychological disorders that can be treated.

Simply the put, the number one reason this is a bad idea is because we're trying to make progress...not hinder it.
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Reply 16 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 08:18:53 PM)
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Quoted from Smokey:
You're just jumping backwards with a thought process similar to "Take out their frontal lobe, problem solved." It's a barbaric thought that strays from the idea that sex offenders can rehabilitate and live normal lives...and they can, and have. Strip away your fucking morals for a second and focus on the fact that the majority of these cases stem from psychological disorders that can be treated.

Simply the put, the number one reason this is a bad idea is because we're trying to make progress...not hinder it.


You said it better than I could.
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Reply 17 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 09:17:48 PM)
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When grand intentions deliver positive results on a large scale i'll be the first to say chemical castration is a bad move for society.
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greenidentity
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Reply 18 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-29-05 10:20:23 PM)
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How exactly do you know they don't? And besides that, how do you know chemical castration WILL? I guess that's a matter of specualtion.

I'm sorry, but statistics can be as faulty as anything else. I'd much rather take the word of someone who has had driect experience with this sort of thing, whether it be through experience or profession, and I personally have seen many success stories. Sure there are people who are unable to be rehabilitated, like any other criminal. But then why don't we lock them up and let them live in prison where they'll get beat up and basically live in hell? It's pretty common knowledge that pedophiles don't get any breaks in prison from other inmates.
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Reply 19 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:10:08 AM)
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Well im researching the subject online and i've encountered the results of clincal research that spans hundreds of sex offenders and clincal castration is far more effective than current psychiatric processes. And some criminals are choosing to be chemically castrated and finding that it works far better than any other 'remedy'. A lot of the studies I have found, and not all of them are pro-castration, indicate that therapy can often aggrevate the violent disposition of offenders and if it does work it is a gradual process that takes years. I think there is room in society for both options and that it should always be offered as a CHOICE to offenders and that in extreme cases we should chemically castrate them so that their testosterone levels can be managed, their sex drives curtailed or killed, thusly creating an inroad into their mind beyond sex and the desire to enact these hideous crimes on children.



Monday, March 5, 2001 The Los Angeles Times reports that surgical castration is becoming increasingly popular among convicted sex offenders as an alternative to indefinite incarceration. Many convicts serve their court-imposed sentence, but pose too much of a risk to others to be released at the end of their term. The state of California mandates either surgical or chemical castration (hormone shots that lead to impotence) before it will release certain sex offenders; in other states, convicts may voluntarily request that their testicles be removed in order to hasten their release. Though an oft-cited German study has shown that only 3 percent of castrated offenders committed another sex crime, compared with 46 percent of non-castrated offenders, many groups are against castration. The ACLU calls it "cruel and unusual" punishment (unlike the "kind and ordinary" treatment the victims received), while some victimsí advocacy groups are concerned that the effects of castration can be mitigated with testosterone patches, pills, and injections. --www.bust.com news section

And how do you feel about the criminals themselves choosing to be castrated?

And as this interesting article states, we should be doing what we can right NOW to stop children being raped. Every statistic i've seen, and they cant ALL be lying..suggests that while there isint enough data for an ultimate conclusion, chemical castration is by far the most effective means of preventing relapses currently on offer.

http://www.212.net/crime/castrate.htm
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This reply was last edited on 04-30-05 12:16:37 AM by Snowy.
greenidentity
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Reply 20 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:16:43 AM)
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Criminals themselves choosing to be castrated is a different story. I am all for that, it's thier personal choice, if they think it's best, go for it.

But that will never happen. The governement has never been very good at giving choices to criminals. If this went ahead, I think government officials of some sort will eb the ones making the choices, and i just think it's wrong. Mostly because I don't trust the government very much adn think there's almost a promise of this being abused or misplaced by them.
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Reply 21 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:20:41 AM)
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Well as my quote indicates, criminals are already allowed to choose chemical castration in a some states:

''The state of California mandates either surgical or chemical castration (hormone shots that lead to impotence) before it will release certain sex offenders; in other states, convicts may voluntarily request that their testicles be removed in order to hasten their release.''

Also I havent met too many rape victims who wouldnt be displeased to learn their rapist has had his testicles removed with a blunt spoon.
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greenidentity
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Reply 22 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:34:52 AM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
Well as my quote indicates, criminals are already allowed to choose chemical castration in a some states:

''The state of California mandates either surgical or chemical castration (hormone shots that lead to impotence) before it will release certain sex offenders; in other states, convicts may voluntarily request that their testicles be removed in order to hasten their release.''


And as I said before, in that case, I'd be all for it. And here, I am not talking about California, I'm talking about MN.

Quoted from Snowy:
Also I havent met too many rape victims who wouldnt be displeased to learn their rapist has had his testicles removed with a blunt spoon.


Yes becuase all "victims" of sexual crimes feel the same.
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Reply 23 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:38:25 AM)
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You were talking about personal experience meaning more than statistics, and i've met quite a few women who've been raped in my quest to feel better about what happened to me. We all agree on this one point...His bollocks in a jar = good thing. And you dont need to roll your eyes at me like that, it's kind of beneath us in this topic of debate, really. Okay, eyeroll gone, tho probably only because it didnt load properly ;p
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greenidentity
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Reply 24 of 62 (Originally posted on: 04-30-05 12:43:25 AM)
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Quoted from Snowy:
You were talking about personal experience meaning more than statistics, and i've met quite a few women who've been raped in my quest to feel better about what happened to me. We all agree on this one point...His bollocks in a jar = good thing. And you dont need to roll your eyes at me like that, it's kind of beneath us in this topic of debate, really. Okay, eyeroll gone, tho probably only because it didnt load properly ;p


I was trying to employ the roll eyes smiley, it didn't work and I deleted it.

I'm not arguing with you that there are victims who are still very angry. But there are also a great deal of them who are not. I've seen equal amounts of both. Resulting in my opinion that; there are also the same amount of people who wouldn't wish something like that on thier attacker. That's all.

I know it's hard to not get upset about sexual predators. It's very unacceptable. But I am the kind of person who tries to put my intial emotions aside and not get uppity about morals. I try to really look at a different side of what's underneath the surface, in a calm way.
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