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Skye
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(Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:15:41 PM)
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I mean, why? What the fuck kind of decision is that?

You have the typical situation the media would have you buy and is in most cases true: I wanna be too cool for school and everyone else is doing it, blah blah whatevertheshit. The reason that is supposed to prey upon you at the tender age of 10 and haunt you throughout pre- and post-pubescent life. Firstly, smoking for popularity is just as stupid as any other radical decision one makes to be "cool." Secondly, by the time a person realizes that smoking has not made them too cool for the proverbial school, he's a weak chickenshit who's a fiend of the demon nicotine, or so he claims. "I'm addicted, playa, I can't help it now!"

Another reason is that people have the choice to smoke. I choose my own destiny, anime series resolution-type speeches. Jerry Springer it's mah boday i kin do what i want; u don't know me bitch reasoning. But the thing that makes non-smokers like me question your "choice" is the nature of its consequences. Non-smokers do not want to forbid smokers choices to live their life. It is your life; do whatevertheshit you'd like as far as that. But people do have the right to criticize a smoker's mental capacity on the basis of the decisions he makes. Call it...doing what we want. It doesn't matter even what the person's smoking. Why smoke? Is it preparation for the future age when pollution will run rampant in the atmosphere, so pumping carcinogens into one's lungs will make them Superman? What choices lie there? Why would one simply smoke because the opportunity is there, despite the blatant health risks involved with lighting up a fag? What logical reasoning could one consciously give for smoking?

Before we go on, don't bring up the whole well, people drink alcohol and have sex and engage in a ton of shit that would kill you dead fucker so shut the hell up life is a risk we must all take. I don't want Sailor Moon speeches. I'm asking about one specific, direct choice. What sorts of things go through a person's head when he decides to smoke? I know the deterrents are unsuccessful and immensely lame, especially the commercials; I've been tempted to pick up a cigarette and start puffing and encourage others to do it just in an attempt to STOP those shitty commercials. But there are some valid ways of spreading the information about smoking being hazardous that are backed by valid medical studies, etc. Why are you not following that as reasoning to stop? I'm going to set aside the discussion of smoking illegal substances because that's a whole different region of debate.

To be honest, as a non-smoker, I view the idea of smoking similarly to a bunch of people packed on a single ship. The ship begins going down. The passengers who don't smoke are the ones on the lifeboats, flying down the ocean. The passengers who do start smoking but eventually quit are the ones who curse the lifeboaters and then jump off the ship and start swimming down the ocean. The passengers who smoke for all eternity are the ones who go down on the ship, perhaps because they can't swim (or in this analogy, quit), or perhaps they've given up on life (a valid example for both occurrences), or some other reason I haven't even grasped or touched on.

Please explain that last reason to me. It has to fucking be there.

tl;dr crew: Why do people smoke? It makes no sense to me. Answer below, please!
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Reply 1 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:19:08 PM)
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Because it's cool.

I buy into media hype and shit. And peer pressure, I love that shit.

I met a girl who smokes, and some people who smoke. They're somehow cooler just due to this.

Thus, do I smoke.
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Reply 2 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:25:59 PM)
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I don't buy it. Smaoking may have bonded them as a group to seem cool, but I can find other groups of people without having to smoke and still "belong". Even so, just because they smake wouldn't mean I'd have to. The smoking in the first place would turn me away form them, I think.
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Reply 3 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:30:34 PM)
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Peer pressure: "Are you afraid of smoking a single cigarette? Come on, you have to at least try it. It's not like one cigarette is going to kill you."

Thoughts to self: "Well one cigarette didn't do anything to me. Another isn't going to hurt."

...a few more cigarettes are smoked...

Me: "Aren't you worried about getting addicted?"

Him/Her: "I can stop anytime. I'm definitely not addicted."

It was a bit disturbing to watch this failed train of rationality proceed with each of my friends when I was a young teen. I have never met anyone that I knew to start smoking after the legal age. It's always something like 13, 14, or younger.

And like was said in the BB thread, the effects of smoking are far off, so quiting rarely seems like a priority. It's about as much a priority as exercise and diet, and we know how well young people (I'm going to stretch and include myself in this group) actually follow health habits that are good for them.

All of my friends still smoke, quite a great deal too.

Alternatively, you could say that young people start smoking for the same reason that young girls like to wear makeup or desire piercings. When you are a kid, becoming an adult as soon as possible seems like a priority. Thus, kids do things that adults do, both good and bad. I'm not a psychologist though so this last paragraph may be complete bullshit. But the beginning dialogue really does represent how my friends became addicted, and I wouldn't be surprised if similar happened elsewhere.
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Reply 4 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:31:51 PM)
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Because people like it.
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Reply 5 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:39:35 PM)
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Quoted from Mingan:
Because people like it.


But [hugefontintlcan'tpossiblycarry]WHY[/hugefontintlcan'tpossiblycarry] do people like to smoke? Are the reasons, in fact, similar to those people use to drink? How does smoking make you feel and how is this preferable to the world of non-smoking? Explain it to me please, good sir.
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Reply 6 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:46:54 PM)
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Because it tasts good, because it feels good, because its a comfortable thing to do.

why do people do things? because they want to. Need more?
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Reply 7 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 02:53:58 PM)
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Quoted from Skye:
Quoted from Mingan:
Because people like it.


But [hugefontintlcan'tpossiblycarry]WHY[/hugefontintlcan'tpossiblycarry] do people like to smoke? Are the reasons, in fact, similar to those people use to drink? How does smoking make you feel and how is this preferable to the world of non-smoking? Explain it to me please, good sir.

I seriously doubt many people sit down, weigh the consequences on either hand, and decide yes or no whether to smoke. No, rather, they try it out for the same reason that they try everything else out. They still have much to learn about the world and trying something out for its own sake is reason enough. By the time they become addicted, and that is not long, they are no longer in a position to rationally reconsider and reverse their choice. They can, but cigarettes are very addictive. Why do people do addictive things? Because of why they start doing them, together with the fact that they are addictive.

While the reasons Mingan cited certainly are rationales for continuing to smoke, they aren't reasons for starting. You can't really know the subjective effects until you've done it. And by the time you are familiar with the subjective effects, you are addicted.
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Reply 8 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 03:15:35 PM)
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I used to smoke because I enjoyed the warm feeling down my throat and in my lungs as I took a drag on a cigarette. I still smoke the hookah on occasion for the same reason. Also it seems to help other people relax on a subconscious level. That doesn't apply to me though because I'm usually chill anyway.
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Reply 9 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 03:16:08 PM)
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Have you ever smoked? The buzz you get feels really good. You're relaxed.

It's like what Gatorade does for athletes.

Even though I don't smoke, and never plan on it.
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Reply 10 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 03:18:10 PM)
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At my school, people smoke because they're not usually smoking cigarettes, and everyone gets happy.

I have weak lungs and do not participate, though.
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Reply 11 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 03:47:28 PM)
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The more interesting question here is addressed to Skye: [half clever use of a non-existent command]WHY[/ditto] do you give a shit?

You're talking about some sort of Freudian reasoning behind smoking. Guess what? It's not really any deeper than someone having a favorite band, or a show they watch on television, or you enjoying KFC.

And that Maya Angelou thing was absolute bullshit. Does every black woman who has an issue with something try for a Pulitzer? More annoying than the trying question of why people smoke is you making some half-ass metaphor about it.

This thread would not even have been made if you didn't see one of those "Truth" commercials, and here's why: it's a HABIT. PEOPLE HAVE HABITS. The real reason you care is because it is an issue that goes well with opinion. I'm fairly comfortable guessing that the growing trend of nose-picking in Missouri children doesn't bother you in a psycho-analytical way.

But to answer your question: addiction.
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Reply 12 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:11:48 PM)
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Because it makes my brain tingle.

I don't do it often, don't really give a shit either way. I'm too apathetic to become addicted, at least as of right now. If someone is smoking, I might bum a cigarette, but it's rare.

I used to drink more often, too. But not so much anymore, I've got a job and school and stuff. Ain't got the time. Cigarettes are much more non-committal, as far as time invested goes.
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Reply 13 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:18:25 PM)
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WHY DO PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T DIRECTLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEIR SURVIVAL?

I smoke because I enjoy the buzz I still get occasionally (when I don't smoke for prolonged periods of time) and it gives me something to do when I'm bored (I have an oral fixation). Also, I've been known to go days and weeks without smoking (just as Wandering Idiot), so smoking is one of those things that I'm not so much physically addicted to, but rather more psychologically addicted to.

I fucking hate people who bitch about smokers. It's so fucking chic nowadays to attack smokers, it makes me fucking sick. In the words of the great, late Bill Hicks.

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth."

"About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty fucking cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"

"[Some non-smokers are] obnoxious, self-righteous, whining little fucks. My biggest fear is that if I quit smoking, I'll become one of you. Don't take that wrong. I have something to tell you non-smokers that I know for a fact that you don't know, and I feel it's my duty to pass on information at all times. Ready? Non-smokers die every day. Enjoy your evening. See, I know that you entertain this eternal life fantasy because you've chosen not to smoke, but let me be the 1st to POP that bubble and bring you hurtling back to reality. You're dead too."
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Reply 14 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:25:00 PM)
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Nicotine.
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Reply 15 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:35:25 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
"About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"


Even though this is valid and not your words, you shouldn't have included it. Now Skye is going to feed you the second-hand smoke line, and about how you're making her lungs blacker than they need to be.

Joke's on you Skye, your lungs are already black!
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Reply 16 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:38:25 PM)
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Quoted from Bill Hicks:
"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth."

That doesn't make any sense. I'd call it a red herring but it doesn't even seem to qualify.

Quoted from Bill Hicks:
"About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Sure, as long as the last clause obtains, I agree it's no one's business. As long as you pay commensurate premiums and don't make me suck down obnoxious amounts of second smoke when I dine (don't worry, I've a fairly high tolerance), I see no problem. But still, countering illogical criticisms with illogical denials doesn't get us anywhere:

Quoted from Bill Hicks:
"[Some non-smokers are] obnoxious, self-righteous, whining little fucks. My biggest fear is that if I quit smoking, I'll become one of you.

Non-smokers don't have a monopoly on those negative traits.

Quoted from Bill Hicks:
I have something to tell you non-smokers that I know for a fact that you don't know, and I feel it's my duty to pass on information at all times. Ready? Non-smokers die every day. Enjoy your evening. See, I know that you entertain this eternal life fantasy because you've chosen not to smoke, but let me be the 1st to POP that bubble and bring you hurtling back to reality. You're dead too."

False dichotomy. Yes, we are all mortal. But we can increase our chances of longer living. This last bit would be just as valid if you substituted "glue-sniffers" for "smokers". That is, not at all.

I've little against smoking. I just think the quotes you gave from Bill Hicks represent exceptionally bad thought processes. Smoke or do whatever the fuck you want to your own bodies. Each person is the master of their own destiny. But where it starts to affect me, I'm going to bitch. As long as you carry your own weight (e.g., commensurately higher insurance premiums), I have no problem.

But I'll still say it's a dumb thing to do. I think people should be able to do whatever they want to themselves. But that doesn't mean I have to give a thumbs up when I see them do it.
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Reply 17 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:46:20 PM)
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Like I said in the BB thread, I don't care if people smoke. It just removes them from society faster than normal on average. So long as they don't do it in public spaces (restraunts) where all the smoke will build up and become a respiratory problem for people, I let them be.
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Reply 18 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:50:50 PM)
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Quoted from Tyr:
Even though this is valid and not your words, you shouldn't have included it. Now Skye is going to feed you the second-hand smoke line, and about how you're making her lungs blacker than they need to be.
I forgot that second-hand cigarette smoke is worse than the pollution that cars belch out. Oh wait.


As for you, etymxris, the fact that you are purposely trying to analyze Hicks' quotes makes me laugh and slowly shake my head from side to side.
No.
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Reply 19 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 04:52:31 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
I forgot that second-hand cigarette smoke is worse than the pollution that cars belch out. Oh wait.


That was my point. But these CLEAN AIR CLEAN WATER freaks won't have any of it, and you know it as well as I do.
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Reply 20 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 05:04:05 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
As for you, etymxris, the fact that you are purposely trying to analyze Hicks' quotes makes me laugh and slowly shake my head from side to side.

You'd be surprised how many take comedian quips seriously. If you meant your post for sheer comedic value and were not sincere, then I guess there's no disagreement. But you didn't make that obvious.

Quoted from Sandamnit:
I forgot that second-hand cigarette smoke is worse than the pollution that cars belch out. Oh wait.

It depends on the situation. I worked on 34th St in the middle of Manhattan a few years ago, and when I opened the window for fresh air, my keyboard, monitor, desk, and everything else would be coated with thick black soot within minutes. But had I been in a closed room with a few heavy smokers, the clambaking effect would have made keeping the window open a net benefit.
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Reply 21 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 05:08:30 PM)
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hey, you people who bitch about people who bitch about smoking are just as annoying as they are

ain't no smoking happening in my place, it's disgusting, and keep the fuck away from me if you'd like one, i can't stand the smell
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Reply 22 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 05:14:37 PM)
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That's a fucking stupid question, Skye.

Why do people do ANYTHING that they know is bad for their health?
Why do they choose to eat unhealthy food or take drugs?

Because it makes them feel good, it gives them pleasure in some way.
And if a person chooses to do unhealthy things in order to get pleasure, then that's his choice and no one can tell him that it's WRONG.

You can decide that it would be the wrong choice to make for YOU, but not for anyone else.
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Reply 23 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 05:16:33 PM)
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Quoted from Surt:
hey, you people who bitch about people who bitch about smoking are just as annoying as they are


No we're not, we're just telling them they're idiots.

Kind of like you telling us we're idiots.

Funny how that works out!
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Reply 24 of 46 (Originally posted on: 09-17-04 05:17:41 PM)
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When I was younger (about 13), I wanted to get addicted to cigarettes just to see if I could quit. People always say how hard it is, so I just wanted to see if I was strong enough to drop that kind of addiction.

Only just tried smoking about a week ago, and it really didn't do anything for me. I'll try again, probably, but chances are I will never become a smoker.
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