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feathers

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(Originally posted on: 07-03-04 03:13:53 PM)
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Basically, this thread is simple. We state and debate our theories of what happens after we die.

I have a couple. I'm sure the second one isn't mine, it is actually the psychic Sylvia Browne's portrayal of what happens. The first one I've never heard before, but it is based off of another theory, which may lower its credibility some. If it's been stated before, please bring this to my attention.

My first theory is based off of the Multiverse Theory, in which it states that there are an infinite amount of universes. Therefore, anything can and will happen in one of those.

If that is the case, I feel that perhaps when we die, we just move on to another universe. We become the same person in that universe, and we live our lives again. However, different things will happen to us. They may be very altered compared to our previous life, but we would still be the same person. So basically, we would never get a rest from life.

My second is, as stated, from Sylvia Browne. She states that after you die, everyone will go to Heaven. The exception to that being the ones that commit suicide. They are forced to come back, and live another life which is very much like the one in which they committed suicide.

As for the others, they go to Heaven and are allowed to basically do whatever they want. There is, in her Heaven, a part in which you can go to any specific time in the past or the future and relive it. Personally, I would find that terribly amazing. It'd certainly be an experience.

In her theory, after you've been in Heaven the amount you want to, you can ask to return. You will most likely be given some sort of mission to complete, and it is not necessarily on the Earth.

Both of these I find interesting, and I'm very interested in hearing everyone else's theories. Feel free to bring any sort of religion into this, if you wish.
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Reply 1 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 03:37:00 PM)
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Well, being a Catholic, we believe good people go to heaven, bad people to hell. Very simply explained.

There is also the very popular atheistic-view of, once dead, dead. Brains shut down and nothing else happens.
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Reply 2 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 05:01:10 PM)
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Quoted from feathers:
Basically, this thread is simple. We state and debate our theories of what happens after we die.
This may sound ridiculous, but I dont like the idea of referring to any ideas about what happens to us in the afterlife as a theory. A theory is a logical explanation based on observation, facts hypotheses, experimentation, and reasoning that attempts to explain natural phenomena. Nothing in this thread will involve any of this, so its just not right to call our beliefs theories. Also I dont think there will be much debating of our beliefs, because all our beliefs on the afterlife are either equally intelligent or equally stupid.

As for me I believe we just die and nothing happens. It is not exactly a fun belief so I like to pretend to believe that when we die our soul becomes one with God and as a result achieve some sort of eternal happiness.
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Reply 3 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 06:34:25 PM)
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Quoted from Xenos:
There is also the very popular atheistic-view of, once dead, dead. Brains shut down and nothing else happens.
That's all.
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Reply 4 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 07:10:31 PM)
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Quoted from Shady Milkman:
Quoted from feathers:
Basically, this thread is simple. We state and debate our theories of what happens after we die.
This may sound ridiculous, but I dont like the idea of referring to any ideas about what happens to us in the afterlife as a theory. A theory is a logical explanation based on observation, facts hypotheses, experimentation, and reasoning that attempts to explain natural phenomena. Nothing in this thread will involve any of this, so its just not right to call our beliefs theories. Also I dont think there will be much debating of our beliefs, because all our beliefs on the afterlife are either equally intelligent or equally stupid.

As for me I believe we just die and nothing happens. It is not exactly a fun belief so I like to pretend to believe that when we die our soul becomes one with God and as a result achieve some sort of eternal happiness.



Thank you for pointing out that raping of the word theory.

What we have here is mere speculations. So, "Let us talk about afterlife speculations" would be a far more accurate title.
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Reply 5 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 07:32:09 PM)
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I'll agree with Xenos and emtilt. Your brain stops functioning, your body decays, and you're fucking dead.
I used to think life made sense until I started losing brain cells.
feathers

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Reply 6 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 07:43:33 PM)
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Quoted from Science Brad:
Quoted from Shady Milkman:
Quoted from feathers:
Basically, this thread is simple. We state and debate our theories of what happens after we die.
This may sound ridiculous, but I dont like the idea of referring to any ideas about what happens to us in the afterlife as a theory. A theory is a logical explanation based on observation, facts hypotheses, experimentation, and reasoning that attempts to explain natural phenomena. Nothing in this thread will involve any of this, so its just not right to call our beliefs theories. Also I dont think there will be much debating of our beliefs, because all our beliefs on the afterlife are either equally intelligent or equally stupid.

As for me I believe we just die and nothing happens. It is not exactly a fun belief so I like to pretend to believe that when we die our soul becomes one with God and as a result achieve some sort of eternal happiness.



Thank you for pointing out that raping of the word theory.

What we have here is mere speculations. So, "Let us talk about afterlife speculations" would be a far more accurate title.


Well, one definition of a theory is a speculation.

Quoted from EscalatorToHell:
I'll agree with Xenos and emtilt. Your brain stops functioning, your body decays, and you're fucking dead.


I don't see how that is possible, in actuality. I feel that the present is based on the future, and without a future there is no present. If you are simply gone after you die, then how would you be aware of this experience right now?

It's like if you were drunk, if you are drunk and you forget what happens, it is as if nothing ever happened. It's merely a blank space. You only remember what happened before and after. However, if there was nothing after the fact, then you would not remember any of it. Your mind would simply be blank. Just as if there was nothing after you die, it seems like we would not even be conscious of this.
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Reply 7 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 08:17:27 PM)
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My speculation/theory/whatever-you-wanna-call-it is basically a cross between the Anicent Roman religious/mythological belief of an Underworld and reincarnation. When people die, their souls go to the Underworld. They're judged as good or bad souls, and good souls are reincarnated while bad souls are sent to Tartarus and forced to do horridly annoying stuff until the end of time.
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Reply 8 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 09:34:42 PM)
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I like the idea of reincarnation. I like the idea of vampires and demons too, and we all know how real those are.

As a christian? I don't really give a crap about eternal life. That's not why i'm a christian. (Why is for another thread.)
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Reply 9 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-03-04 10:42:27 PM)
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I'm inclined to side with all the other you die and that's it people.
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Reply 10 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-04-04 12:01:26 AM)
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The energy of a body has to go somewhere. I suppose you could say that the energy is your "soul," and it does something, or that when you die, the energy just "goes into the ground" like when a plant dies or something.
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Reply 11 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-04-04 10:03:42 AM)
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The "energy" becomes food for the creatures that expediate decomposition.

I don't believe there's any sort of soul that contines on after we stop being alive, but it is a potentially pleasant idea.

I consider the memory a sort of "afterlife," though definitely not in any sort of literal sense, as in one's "soul" actually "lives" inside of other people. Even if you yourself have ceased to be, if people still remeber you it's as though, to some extent, you're still there and you still have an effect on the world. So that is what I think the afterlife primarily is: being preserved in memory.
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Reply 12 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-04-04 05:21:47 PM)
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Quote:
My second is, as stated, from Sylvia Browne. She states that after you die, everyone will go to Heaven. The exception to that being the ones that commit suicide. They are forced to come back, and live another life which is very much like the one in which they committed suicide.


I'd really like to know where she gets that from. I mean, we can't know anything, and for all we know from observation there isn't anything else. You can believe in an afterlife, but when you get into such details as who gets into heaven and why, you're simply talking out of your ass.
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feathers

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Reply 13 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-04-04 09:48:26 PM)
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Quoted from Sukkit:
Quote:
My second is, as stated, from Sylvia Browne. She states that after you die, everyone will go to Heaven. The exception to that being the ones that commit suicide. They are forced to come back, and live another life which is very much like the one in which they committed suicide.


I'd really like to know where she gets that from. I mean, we can't know anything, and for all we know from observation there isn't anything else. You can believe in an afterlife, but when you get into such details as who gets into heaven and why, you're simply talking out of your ass.


Quoted from feathers:
I'm sure the second one isn't mine, it is actually the psychic Sylvia Browne's portrayal of what happens.


She says she hears it from her spirit guide.
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Reply 14 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-04-04 10:15:17 PM)
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And you believe her? Why, may I ask? Clearly not based on any empirical evidence.
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Reply 15 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-05-04 06:23:15 PM)
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There's a cool website dealing with all this pseudoscience/paranormal 'stuff'

www.skepdic.com

Also there are quite a few books out there detailing the myriad of reasons why people (even intelligent people) believe in stupid things.
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science."
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An eye for an eye has left the world blind.
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Reply 16 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-05-04 07:30:52 PM)
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Well, there is something comforting about the idea of something from your life still existing after you die. I mean, it doesn't give it any sort of real explaination, but thinking these things about what will happen to them probably helps some people control their fears of death. Having your life stop is an idea that's very big and scary to some, and so they ease themselves into it by the means of an imaginary afterlife for them, one which makes them feel that it might, in fact, not be the worst thing that could happen to them. Thereby they become more comfortable with death. In short, it's a sort of coping mechanism, similar to dreaming.

Of course, not everybody needs this "comfort blanket" called an afterlife, and in some cases it can probably increase fear. For example, someone who believes in Hell might be considerably less comfortable with the idea of dying, depending on their interpretation.

Personally, I just think people should pick whatever speculation they like, as long as they don't impress it upon others. It's really just a personal thing, and there's no points for being correct in the end, just the end of your life with whatever you think happens as your final thought.
feathers

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Reply 17 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-05-04 08:00:53 PM)
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Quoted from emtilt:
And you believe her? Why, may I ask? Clearly not based on any empirical evidence.


I'm not really sure if I believe it or not yet. I would like to think it was true, because it's a very nice description. However, I'm not sure whether to believe her or not.

There are some things that have been proven true that she has said. She's been used in crime investigations and such.

Quoted from Science Brad:
There's a cool website dealing with all this pseudoscience/paranormal 'stuff'

www.skepdic.com

Also there are quite a few books out there detailing the myriad of reasons why people (even intelligent people) believe in stupid things.


I'll check that site out. I'm sure the bottom is just an insult thrown at me, but nevertheless I appreciate the link.
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Reply 18 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-05-04 09:15:24 PM)
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I'm with Peter Griffin:

"Hey, I've gotten people to believe crazier things. (Flashback to Peter reading to a Sunday school class) And if you are pure of heart and deed you'll all go to a beautiful place called heaven. Haha! I'm yankin' ya, ya just rot in the ground."

Psychic ability used to solve crimes? There was an interesting letter about this in a recent E-Skeptic newsletter. I found it online here:

http://www.leanleft.com/archives/002894.html

Quoted from Science Brad:
Also there are quite a few books out there detailing the myriad of reasons why people (even intelligent people) believe in stupid things.


Here's a short article Michael Shermer wrote for his monthly column in Scientific American in September 2002 (the same month the 2nd edition of his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" was released):

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0002F4E6-8CF7-1D49-90FB809EC5880000&catID=2
This reply was last edited on 07-05-04 10:46:30 PM by cloudnin.
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Reply 19 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-05-04 09:59:48 PM)
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Quoted from feathers:
I don't see how that is possible, in actuality. I feel that the present is based on the future, and without a future there is no present. If you are simply gone after you die, then how would you be aware of this experience right now?

It's like if you were drunk, if you are drunk and you forget what happens, it is as if nothing ever happened. It's merely a blank space. You only remember what happened before and after. However, if there was nothing after the fact, then you would not remember any of it. Your mind would simply be blank. Just as if there was nothing after you die, it seems like we would not even be conscious of this.


That doesn't make a damned bit of reasonable sense. At best it's an analogy for why you can't always properly contextualise the events of the present (their historical impact, etc.), but even then it's pretty lacklustre. How is it even remotely possible for something that has occured or is occuring to have its basis in something that hasn't yet occured?
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Science Brad
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Reply 20 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-06-04 12:17:10 AM)
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Quoted from cloudnin:
I'm with Peter Griffin:

"Hey, I've gotten people to believe crazier things. (Flashback to Peter reading to a Sunday school class) And if you are pure of heart and deed you'll all go to a beautiful place called heaven. Haha! I'm yankin' ya, ya just rot in the ground."

Psychic ability used to solve crimes? There was an interesting letter about this in a recent E-Skeptic newsletter. I found it online here:

http://www.leanleft.com/archives/002894.html

Quoted from Science Brad:
Also there are quite a few books out there detailing the myriad of reasons why people (even intelligent people) believe in stupid things.


Here's a short article Michael Shermer wrote for his monthly column in Scientific American in September 2002 (the same month the 2nd edition of his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" was released):

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0002F4E6-8CF7-1D49-90FB809EC5880000&catID=2


Coincidently his book was the one I had in mind when I mentioned that.

People, please. I know belief in the paranormal and all that jazz sounds really cool, but it is stupid. Plain and simple. It fails every single double blind and random test ever. It is a combination of wishful thinking and positive outcome bias.
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Reply 21 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-06-04 01:29:55 AM)
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Well, science cannot refute most afterlife theories, because they are fairly unfalsifiable. Take this version for example: parallel to the physical realm is a realm of souls. During life, there is no causal interaction between these two realms, yet God maintains concert between them. At death, when the physical body withers away in decomposition, the soul is taken to heaven or hell, as appropriate.

Now, science cannot possibly say anything about what is not in the causal closure of the physical realm. And there's no a priori reason such a dual realm could not exist. However, there isn't really a good reason to suppose that it does exist, either. There can be no justification for such a belief, it truly does have to exist on faith.

My own view is to say that when considering the circumstances that create such beliefs, it is much more likely that they arise from mundane sociological and psychological needs than that they correspond to anything real, in the physical or spiritual realms.

To be fair, however, one can give a cosmological argument. One can say that the universe is a priori unlikely, given that, had the physical constants been even slightly different, the universe could not have supported life. So one can say that the universe was likely created for the explicit purpose of supporting life such as our own. Once you have a creator, you can speculate about his intentions and desires and whatnot. Though it would be stretching, one can try to figure that such a creator would want to give the life it created an afterlife, either to punish or reward. I don't agree with this cosmological argument, and the reasons aren't terribly straightforward, but the argument has been made, and it would not be charitable to avoid mentioning it.
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Reply 22 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-06-04 02:47:55 AM)
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Quoted from uselessinformation:
Quoted from feathers:
I don't see how that is possible, in actuality. I feel that the present is based on the future, and without a future there is no present. If you are simply gone after you die, then how would you be aware of this experience right now?

It's like if you were drunk, if you are drunk and you forget what happens, it is as if nothing ever happened. It's merely a blank space. You only remember what happened before and after. However, if there was nothing after the fact, then you would not remember any of it. Your mind would simply be blank. Just as if there was nothing after you die, it seems like we would not even be conscious of this.


That doesn't make a damned bit of reasonable sense. At best it's an analogy for why you can't always properly contextualise the events of the present (their historical impact, etc.), but even then it's pretty lacklustre. How is it even remotely possible for something that has occured or is occuring to have its basis in something that hasn't yet occured?

I get what he's trying to say. Were your mind completely gone, awareness included, well.. it's impossible for us to visualize because we still have a mind, and it's impossible to imagine not having such. Anyhow, he has a point that if your mind is gone, you have nothing to remember with, and what is happening right now in the present can't be remembered if there is no mind.. well it's harder to explain than I thought.

...I've tried six times and can't come up iwth a good example or explanation, but I understand him.
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Reply 23 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-06-04 03:02:12 AM)
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Can you really claim to understand it if you can't explain it, or do you just want to agree but can't back it up?
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Reply 24 of 158 (Originally posted on: 07-06-04 03:08:15 AM)
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Well, it's occurred to me before too. Like.. all the alien abduction theories, their memories are erased before they come back, so it's like it never happened, even if they were gone for long periods of time. Well, if your memory is "erased" per se when you die, then you wouldn't remember anything, and it'd be like your life never happened. So experiencing the present now can only be accomplished if you exist in the future to remember it by. And if you're dead, your future has stopped.

EDIT: Then again, this is all just random throught flowing from me.. brainstorming, I don't have a set belief in one thing or another.
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This reply was last edited on 07-06-04 03:22:33 AM by IF0.
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