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EscalatorToHell

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(Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:16:54 AM)
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I know there's a thread on the trailer for this, but I thought a thread full of reviews/discussion would be appropriate.

My mother took me to see the 10:05 showing of Fahrenheit 9/11 at the only threatre in a 50 mile radius showing the film. We had originally intended to see the 7:30 showing, but that sold out well before 6 o'clock. As of the time we left, the 500 person crowd for the 12:35 sold out showing was lining up.

I was surprised when my mom was adamant about seeing the movie with me, since she voted for Bush in 2000 and has always seemed somewhat indifferent. My father calls Democrats "commies" so I'm looking forward to her convincing him to see the movie. My mom absolutely loved the film, participated in various outbursts of applause, and was wound up on the ride home. I heard my mom say the most politically biased question I ever expected to come out of her mouth: "Wow, why the hell did we even go into Iraq?" Oh god, thank you Michael Moore. Thank you for being a complete jackass and turning someone who was on the fence into someone voting democratic in the fall.

While in line for the movie at 9:20 (we were told to come at least an hour early and get decent seats) I was amazed by the people coming out of the theatres. Tons of thumbs up. Tons of friend talking to others in the line saying "Yea, so and so, you'll love the movie." Ther ewas actually this old man who came out and said "Hey! Everyone, please go out and vote in november. Let's get this sonofabitch out of office!" The enthusiasm lasted throughout the film. Whenever someone talked about the war being unjust, whenever someone expressed their distaste for Bush's shoddy policies on terror, and whenever an injured iraq veteran discussed his democratic views- the theatre exploded in applause. Frickin' amazing.

The film in itself was extremely entertaining. The points it hit on included everything I've argued with my republican, pro-bush, christian freak, white bread middles class friends since two years back. The Patriot Act. The Saudis.

Oh, the Saudi connections to Bush are heavily discussed. It's really mind blowing how much they're intertwined.

I found Moore's commentary to be less frequent in this film than his previous, and even though very biased, he stood out of the way most of the time. Though, a couple scenes of his interference were priceless. The ice cream truck around capitol hill, for instance.

But really, for the most part, he let the footage speak for itself.

Bush became sort of the comic relief for an otherwise really serious movie. I was laughing in a state of self disgust. It was a "shit, this guy is the leader of my country? Who fucked up there???"

My favorite part was definetly  toward the end of the movie, where Orwell's 1984 was quoted. Brilliant. 

That's all I can really state review-wise at the moment. I plan on seeing the movie at least one other time with a friend of mine on July 2nd when it comes to a local theatre, and hopefully I'll get my grandma to see it with me as well. Some may find Michael Moore to be a leftist muckraker, and really he is. Most of this footage isn't disputable, though. It's very hard to argue with the patriot act's ability to trample over civil liberties, whereas it's possible to argue whether or not Bush is a complete moron.

I recommend this movie to everyone. Republicans, communists, foreigners who don't give a damn, 10 year olds, 90 year olds, etc. Even if you don't agree with it, you'll at least enjoy it. It's funny if a bit depressing; and it's entertaining until you realize that you're actually living in such a comedic, unfortunate state of the world.
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Reply 1 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:21:02 AM)
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I suggest anyone who watches it also read this:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
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EscalatorToHell

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Reply 2 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:26:56 AM)
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Read it yesterday.

Though he tries to make a few desperate attempts at an all-encompassing conspiracy, he doesn't state anything as such. Yes, he says those things, and in that order. He doesn't try to tie them together in any way, just points out the coincidences.

There's too many documents cited and people quoted the disprove any of the things he says about the saudis or their relationship to the Bush family. There isn't a full-out organized conspiracy, but there's something going on that shouldn't be happening. ESPECIALLY if we attacked Iraq for having supposed ties to Al-Quaeda and did nothing about the Saudi terror groups.
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Reply 3 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:35:10 AM)
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I really can't wait to see this movie. I know for a fact that would never dare show it in the on-post theaters here in Korea, so I'm going to do my best to track it down online somehow and watch it before I will finally have an opportunity to watch it when I get home on July 6th, which I most definitely will support by going to the theaters and watching as many times as possible.

I'm so glad (at least from your experiences) that this movie has gotten such a great reception and that Moore didn't go over-the-top with his bias to portray it in such a way that would be detrimental to his cause. I've been waiting to see this since I first heard about it and now that I'm only going to have to wait another couple days for it to show up online, my anticipation is growing more and more.
No.
EscalatorToHell

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Reply 4 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:40:24 AM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
I'm so glad (at least from your experiences) that this movie has gotten such a great reception and that Moore didn't go over-the-top with his bias to portray it in such a way that would be detrimental to his cause.

Well, the people in line behind us were very anti-Moore. The guy had on a t-shirt of him eating a cheeseburger that said "Michael Moore is FAT" on it. So, they kind of bashed him in line, but they sat to our right in the theatres. When others cheered his name on the screen, they sat there kind of disgruntled. At the end, the guy's girlfriend even participated in the standing ovation. So, there are a couple times where he could've backed off, but over all his presence isn't overwhelming. It certainly didn't bother the already Moore-hating viewers next to me.
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Reply 5 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:54:11 AM)
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I thought it was a really good movie. Horribly disturbing though, and I couldn't understand why the audience kept on applauding. I mean, it's a documentary, not a pep rally. I came out very disturbed and uncheerful, and it was an excellent movie overall.
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Reply 6 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:55:47 AM)
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This was perhaps one of the best thing I have watched in awhile. Yes, there is some propaganda in there, and yes if you actually read the news you could pick it out.


I really liked the bit about the Patriot Act and the ice cream truck.

Speaking of the Patriot Act, here is some info about Patriot 2 (should Bush et al. be in power then) http://www.alternet.org/story/15541


He really portrayed the casualties of war rather well on both sides, and showed a glimpse of how brutal it really is.

The beginning, I was happy he devoted like the first 10 minutes to my state...oh wait, no I'm not. But damn, can you imagine how hard that had to be for Gore? Not a single senator to support those challenges and he had to dismiss them? Ugh. It is hard to believe that was 4 years ago.

The end, with Bush's little saying, sheer comic brilliance!

Overall, there were 3 times there were standing ovations in the theatre. One was when he sent the text across the screen about the congressman's private line, the next was at some other point that escapes my mind at this late hour, and the last was at the end naturally.


The sad thing is, the people who really NEED to see this movie will not see it.

edit:

It left me with a mixed feeling. I felt rather disturbed at some of the points it made, yet I had renewed hope that this nightmare would soon be over.
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Reply 7 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 01:03:28 AM)
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I genuinely dislike Micheal Moore, but I don't think I'm required to like him to agree on certain things. Naturally at times he goes over the top, and he's an over the top person. From what I've seen of him, it's some of his best work.

Thing is he reminds me very much of Bill Mahr, who is a complete moron. Bill Mahr actually believes everything he says and that's why he's a comedian. Moore is just a better comedian.

Also no matter how the election turns out things will get worse. One way or the other.
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Reply 8 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 09:04:18 AM)
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Can't wait for it, but gonna have to, it's not out here until august
There seems to just be no one left to bully, Bush is pussy/
Why the fuck you think his name's Bush? Puss is bushy

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Reply 9 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 10:53:43 AM)
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I never thought I'd be saying this, but I think he's too hard on Bush. He sort of implies at times that Bush doesn't actually care at all about homeland security, doesn't want to catch Osama, etc., and that I just cannot buy. While I don't disagree that money, power, and oil are some of his motives, I do think there is some genuine desire of his to protect America -- he's just too stupid to do it properly.

Edit: Also, the enormity of what he's saying in terms of the "Bush doesn't want to catch Osama or protect the homeland or anything" doesn't seem like it will sway the undecideds -- I felt Moore was going too far, and I'm practically a Green, so I think it may strike the undecideds as a cheap shot or something similar. Propaganda becomes a lot less useful when people realize its propaganda.

Furthermore, Bowling for Columbine was better in terms of a clearer thesis and documenterial style, and Fahrenheit 9/11 didn't live up to it.
This reply was last edited on 06-26-04 10:59:48 AM by Wanderlust.
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Reply 10 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 11:41:56 AM)
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http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/trailer_sm.html

It's always good to get a perspective from both sides of the spectrum.
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Reply 11 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 12:51:16 PM)
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Quoted from Xenos:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/trailer_sm.html

It's always good to get a perspective from both sides of the spectrum.



Yes...he...hates America. Oh wait, no.

Those trailers were rather, "meh" at best.
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Reply 12 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 01:01:45 PM)
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Quoted from Science Brad:
Quoted from Xenos:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/trailer_sm.html

It's always good to get a perspective from both sides of the spectrum.



Yes...he...hates America. Oh wait, no.

Those trailers were rather, "meh" at best.


Agreed. But I still don't understand why MM wouldn't just sit down and answer this guys questions. I bet they would be weak anyway, and he would make a fool of this guy like he did to Matt Lauer on Dateline last friday.
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This reply was last edited on 06-26-04 01:07:53 PM by Dante.
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Reply 13 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 01:15:13 PM)
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I'm not a big Michael Moore fan, but I still want to see this quite a bit. Now I just gotta find someone who'll go see it with me...
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Reply 14 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 02:10:47 PM)
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The Saudi's told Bush to not go to Iraq, but yet Bush and the Saudi's are so intertwined? Why did we go to Iraq?

If I see the movie, I'm going to be extremely skeptical, Bowling for Columbine presented a lot of bullshit and skewed facts to make them seem a hell a lot more "eye opening" than they actually are. The guy puts a spin on everything to get people on his side, I don't have respect for him at all.
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Reply 15 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 03:45:18 PM)
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Quote:
Bowling for Columbine presented a lot of bullshit and skewed facts to make them seem a hell a lot more "eye opening" than they actually are.


Such as what? A vast majority of the people who parrot these seem to have no examples to offer up. Surprise me. i'm a serial-killer :)
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Reply 16 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:00:27 PM)
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First of all, he accuses the NRA of being totally non compliant with the shootings, with the deaths by purposely holding a meeting in colorado without any disregard to the victims.

Quote:

NRA curtails convention
But Webb pushes group to cancel all functions

By Kevin Flynn
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer


The National Rifle Association on Wednesday severely curtailed its national convention in Denver next week out of "profound sympathy and respect" for victims of the Columbine High School shooting.

But Denver Mayor Wellington Webb wants the group to cancel its meeting entirely and urged citizens to wage a call-in campaign.

"Everyday people can make a difference," Webb said. "They can call the NRA. Get the 800 number off the billboards and call them and tell them not to come to Denver."

Coincidentally, an NRA billboard along West Colfax Avenue advertising its convention was taken down Wednesday.

Webb offered to refund all deposits and other costs the NRA incurred in renting the convention center, if the group would cancel its meeting outright.

In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.

Both men said they would still make major addresses at the members' meeting.


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml

This isn't in bowling for columbine, but just another event that made me lose respect for him.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp

http://www.mooreexposed.com./swm.html

Another website showing how he tends to skew facts and other things.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/kayla.htm


In general, I don't like the way he presents things. He present opinions, takes things out of context, and puts them together to try and have his opinion be heard (Which he's good at). He's a guy doing a movie, if it's for entertainment value then of course a lot of it is going to be skewed for just that, entertainment.

Did I suprise you ?
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Reply 17 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:19:14 PM)
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He's good at pretending it was satire when he says something really stupid.
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Reply 18 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:32:13 PM)
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Quoted from Alyantis:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp

http://www.mooreexposed.com./swm.html

Another website showing how he tends to skew facts and other things.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/kayla.htm


These all seem to be completely fair and balanced sites, right in the same vein as Fox News or michaelmoorehatesamerica.com. Nor are any of them biased in any way at all, especially mooreexposed.com. omg yah rite fag lol
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This reply was last edited on 06-26-04 07:54:45 PM by Dante.
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Reply 19 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:36:14 PM)
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And moore himself is completely unbiased in his own way. So don't give me that Moore is full of facts when he's so anti bush.

CNN:

http://premium.cnn.com/pr/video/showbiz/2004/06/25/medved.fahrenheit.review.affl.jsp?(none
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Reply 20 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:38:02 PM)
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I'm not a very big fan of Moore, and at times his facts can be inaccurate, but I support the idea of someone willing enough to publicize the 'unpublishable' and someone who actually wants to find out more on issues that are brushed aside so easily.

I'll eventually see it, although from accounts offline, I haven't heard of anybody giving standing ovations, or acting as though it is a pep-rally.

Quote:
Such as what? A vast majority of the people who parrot these seem to have no examples to offer up. Surprise me.


Also, not to start a huge debate as sometimes you enjoy doing so Sammy, but, for example there were cases with his representation of Canada which seemed a bit inaccurate, if not a bit skewed. Though I don't believe it was simply to create a bias or for a better 'eye opener,' it just seemed like it was not nearly completely researched fully.
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Reply 21 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:44:41 PM)
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Quote:
I support the idea of someone willing enough to publicize the 'unpublishable'


Which has become a trend and has lost much of its meaning.

Kind of like being anti-war simply because you saw woodstock and it was cool. Instead of realising there is a good version and a bad version to everything, killing including.
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Reply 22 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:49:09 PM)
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Quoted from Smokey:
Quote:
I support the idea of someone willing enough to publicize the 'unpublishable'


Which has become a trend and has lost much of its meaning.

Kind of like being anti-war simply because you saw woodstock and it was cool. Instead of realising there is a good version and a bad version to everything, killing including.

What's the good side to killing?
If in doubt; suicide.
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Reply 23 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 05:53:30 PM)
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Quoted from Smokey:
Quote:
I support the idea of someone willing enough to publicize the 'unpublishable'


Which has become a trend and has lost much of its meaning.

Kind of like being anti-war simply because you saw woodstock and it was cool. Instead of realising there is a good version and a bad version to everything, killing including.


I wouldn't say it is a trend, but more of a regularity. The more common something gets, the more people begin to loose interest in it, and eventually realize it has lost that part that made it seem special. The only difference now is to what quality it is, not what quantity it is. Though, society in general seems to build on quantity more than quality.
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Reply 24 of 79 (Originally posted on: 06-26-04 06:00:01 PM)
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Quoted from Smokey:
Quote:
I support the idea of someone willing enough to publicize the 'unpublishable'


Which has become a trend and has lost much of its meaning.

Kind of like being anti-war simply because you saw woodstock and it was cool. Instead of realising there is a good version and a bad version to everything, killing including.

Just as Imperialist said. There is no good side to killing. The peoplein Iraq aren't even fighting for a purpose. Saddam wasn't tied to al-qaeda, there's no WMD, etc.
As one of the veterans said in the movie, "I'm not going back there. I don't see how it's fair to send me over there to kill other poor people."
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