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ice wolverine
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(Originally posted on: 02-21-18 06:16:12 AM)
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California gave control over its redistricting process to a nonpartisan commission in 2011. It seems to have worked well and apparently California's districts are some of the most competitive districts in the country.

So what's it like living in Philly for this decision? Are people talking about it? Will you get a new representative?

It doesn't seem clear to me what case says about the future of redistricting in PA. I guess it's assumed that things will go back to normal and revert to state house control for the next round of redistricting?
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Reply 1 of 27 (Originally posted on: 02-21-18 01:17:45 PM)
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Well I live in that district with that representative. He's not running for reelection (though I want him to resign), and I couldn't be happier because he's a utter fucking scumbag who has been too scared to hold an in-person town hall meeting since 2013 but has been relatively secure in his seat because of our absurdly gerrymandered district. His scandal broke before the new districts so I was pleased already with that and I've been thrilled with the redistricting decision and the new map, as far as I can tell, looks fair. To the degree which the system can be fair, anyway. I'm now in the 5th district instead of the 7th, so I think we'd be getting a new rep no matter what (Meehan would never dare run in this new district, despite his offices being in heart of it.

Unfortunately my understanding is that yeah, next round will go back to the state house to draw the map. Would be nice to get one of those nonpartisan commission deals.

Here is the new vs. old maps for those interested:

OLD


NEW

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Champagne Roomies

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Reply 2 of 27 (Originally posted on: 02-21-18 01:18:56 PM)
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Here is another image which overlays the county lines, which the ruling apparently stated had to be respected as much as possible.


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ice wolverine
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Reply 3 of 27 (Originally posted on: 02-22-18 07:00:04 AM)
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are people talking about it? Like on Facebook or whatever do you see people discussing it? or in person obvs
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Reply 4 of 27 (Originally posted on: 02-22-18 09:01:07 AM)
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Haven't heard that much in person but thinking about it I don't really see that many different people day-to-day and most of them aren't American or from PA anyway. Seen some discussion online on facebook and such though. I haven't seen anyone going against it, those corners of facebook are busy with gun rights or nfl players kneeling or whatever the fuck. Also the old map was so comically bad that it's pretty hard to seriously argue anything in favor of it. I've seen some of it online (from strangers in comment sections or whatever) and it's very unconvincing.
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Reply 5 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-01-18 09:05:43 PM)
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I will give you the second hand information from my wife's liberal ass grandpa next time he comes to visit.
"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame the gays than let orphans have families."
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Reply 6 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-02-18 06:58:47 AM)
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how is only his ass liberal? Does it vote?
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Reply 7 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-04-18 04:08:59 PM)
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Some people say vote for with your feet. I say vote with your ass.
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ice wolverine
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Reply 8 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-05-18 04:37:49 AM)
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Quoted from C:
I will give you the second hand information from my wife's liberal ass grandpa next time he comes to visit.
it's so insane that this gerrymandering case is being painted as a liberal vs conservative thing, because really it's more like pro vs anti democracy
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Reply 9 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-05-18 07:17:46 AM)
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One look at district 7 (mine) should tell you everything


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Reply 10 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-05-18 07:21:01 AM)
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I'm from roughly the armpit of the guy on the right. I've never been to or even heard of most of the places in the guy on the left. And it's like an hour's drive away.
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Reply 11 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-05-18 10:14:39 AM)
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Quoted from ice wolverine:
Quoted from C:
I will give you the second hand information from my wife's liberal ass grandpa next time he comes to visit.
it's so insane that this gerrymandering case is being painted as a liberal vs conservative thing, because really it's more like pro vs anti democracy


Democrats legitimately gerrymander shit too. It's just Republicans seem to be really really good at it.
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Reply 12 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-06-18 04:15:45 PM)
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The totally uninformed impression I get from the outside is that yeah, the Democrats do it too, but the Republicans do it a whole lot more. Like the difference between a party being a bit corrupt and a party being indicted en masse for corruption.

Again, a totally uninformed impression, in case you're interested in how it's perceived abroad, for whatever reason.
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Reply 13 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-06-18 06:20:44 PM)
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I think the broader problem is that there is no real standard you can apply, at least in the US, for how these districts should be drawn.
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Reply 14 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-06-18 07:28:25 PM)
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Quoted from Pertti Susilainen:
The totally uninformed impression I get from the outside is that yeah, the Democrats do it too, but the Republicans do it a whole lot more. Like the difference between a party being a bit corrupt and a party being indicted en masse for corruption.

Again, a totally uninformed impression, in case you're interested in how it's perceived abroad, for whatever reason.

Pretty much true, also Republicans control more state legislatures anyway. The really insane states like PA, NC, and Texas are all Republican. But yeah, Nick is also right. Maryland is the big example of Democrat gerrymandering, but the other big offenders, and there are a lot, are mostly Republican. One list: https://rantt.com/the-top-10-most-gerrymandered-states-in-america-bd962843ba1f
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Reply 15 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-07-18 04:35:06 PM)
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part of the problem for me is that's a little challenging to try and visualize what the perfect system would look like. Take California (or texas for the inverse demographics) let's say the states split is 60-40 Democrat-Republican and has 53 seats. Is the goal to have 32-21 split of the seats? is that a well divided state? How badly gerrymandered would the map have to look for that to come out?
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Reply 16 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-07-18 05:01:14 PM)
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I guess the idea is that either you go with a more or less "natural" pre-existing administrative subdivision that can't be manipulated directly, like counties (or hypothetical but fixed supra-county entities), or you forgo electoral districts altogether and simply distribute seats according to the total tally. Any other alternatives are super puzzling to me at least.
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Reply 17 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-07-18 06:00:37 PM)
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California actually does this the right way. We voted in a law that sets up a non-partisan counsel to draw the district maps back in like 2008 and it has been really good for us.
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Reply 18 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-08-18 03:06:28 AM)
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The issue is that a winner-take-all system is always going to run the risk of leaving a lot of people effectively disenfranchised. Competitive districts and jungle primaries can help mitigate that to an extent, but as Sukkit said the most effective solution is to award seats on an at-large basis to the entire electorate, i.e. proportional representation. This also ends up being fairer because minority parties without geographic concentration tend to lose out in winner-take-all systems, and in proportional representation they will be represented in parliament/congress even if they never get very many votes in any one place (Green party).

It's a bit of a trade off, a lot of people find having a local rep who actually lives in your area to be extremely important, but I think the US system tends to overemphasize local rights anyway.
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Reply 19 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-08-18 05:36:31 PM)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_California,_2016

So Democrats won 62% of the vote and 74% of the seats.


In Pennsylvania Republicans won 54% of the vote and 72% of the seats.



So obviously calio is much better, but maybe still not good enough?
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Reply 20 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-09-18 12:51:27 AM)
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Quoted from Muzta:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_California,_2016

So Democrats won 62% of the vote and 74% of the seats.


In Pennsylvania Republicans won 54% of the vote and 72% of the seats.



So obviously calio is much better, but maybe still not good enough?


Possibly however more likely is that this result is due to California's jungle primary, where all candidates of all parties compete in one open primary election and the two with the most votes go on to compete in the general. In a liberal state like California this means that some districts are bound to have Democrats win the top two slots in the primary.
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Reply 21 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-09-18 06:42:09 AM)
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yeah its interesting when that happens.
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Reply 22 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-09-18 08:23:43 AM)
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it would be interesting to test how competitive the Dem vs Rep contests are in California districts that have those.

Here's an article I found from 2015:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/upshot/independently-drawn-districts-have-proved-to-be-more-competitive.html

Interestingly, California's redistricting commission is forbidden from considering partisan data as part of the process. However it prioritizes keeping what it calls "communities of interest" together—the examples the article gives is grouping rural voters and putting wineries in the same district as their warehouses—it probably does that indirectly at least some of the time. The winery example is a bit weird though. Nevertheless a lot more districts are competitive than were before (under a democratic state government).
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Reply 23 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-09-18 09:37:44 AM)
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Quoted from ice wolverine:
Quoted from Muzta:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_California,_2016

So Democrats won 62% of the vote and 74% of the seats.


In Pennsylvania Republicans won 54% of the vote and 72% of the seats.



So obviously calio is much better, but maybe still not good enough?


Possibly however more likely is that this result is due to California's jungle primary, where all candidates of all parties compete in one open primary election and the two with the most votes go on to compete in the general. In a liberal state like California this means that some districts are bound to have Democrats win the top two slots in the primary.


That could be it, and I don't know how often that happened. But a ticket with two Democrats would only accrue votes for Democrats. If anything that would skew results Results in the other direction
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Reply 24 of 27 (Originally posted on: 03-09-18 09:48:36 AM)
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I guess that's reflected in the statistic, you're right
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