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Run Silent Run Drapes
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Reply 50 of 57 (Originally posted on: 08-20-10 08:43:07 PM)
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Quote:
Case in point: today, with the increased demands of minority (women, fags, blacks, mexicans, you name it) "rights" in society, it has become expedient to adopt a social view that all things are relative. "Right" and "wrong" has been replaced with "my opinion" and "your opinion" and the social cohesiveness of the comfortable majority is being replaced with the balkanization of our political economy. This new social habit is based on the presumption that it will ease this transition by being less antagonistic to the newcomers and more accepting of their proportional majority.


Hey Viss, does it drive you nuts that Mexicans aren't going to be a minority for long?
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Reply 51 of 57 (Originally posted on: 08-21-10 02:49:37 AM)
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Pssss, Nick, be serious.
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Reply 52 of 57 (Originally posted on: 08-21-10 01:53:47 PM)
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Quoted from Sandamnit:
Quoted from vissario:
Namby-pamby relativism has no place in any reasnably intelligent mind. If you are going to submit to such malarky, you might as well admit that the sky is not really "blue" because "blue" is just a human term to represent the true color of the sky. In short, it is intellectual retardation.
You are a fountain of terrible examples and non sequitur.

The "color of the sky," as we say is relative to our evolution as a species. Another species that is blind to the spectrum of light that we consider "visible" may interpret "the color of the sky" as something completely different, relative to their own ability to interpret a "visible" range. If we agree on a term (inside or outside our own species), the interpretation is, at best, only accurate to gradation and not exact, thus relative. How does making this kind of distinction, even if only as a thought exercise with no pragmatic application, qualify as "intellectual retardation"?

The extent to which you're willing to go to rally against relativism is maddening. You want so desperately to restrict the world to the confines of our own prejudices and flawed perception, and in so doing, fail to realize that we, as humans, are not the supreme overlords of the universe. Instead, we merely occupy a small portion of it. We do not define reality, we merely assign definitions to reality so as to assist us in making better sense of it.


Also, attempting to cast a negative light on terms by prefixing them with "namby-pamby" doesn't lend any credibility or force to your statements whatsoever. It only makes you look like a desperate child.


You're a real disciple of the "White Horse" argument, aren't you?

But, to your sentence in bold, I have this:

Consider walking on a straight line a distance of 20 feet.

Consider, also, that you are only allowed to move half the remaining distance every time you take a step.

Would you ever make it to the end? No, you wouldn't. This line of thought, though purely logical, serves no real purpose but to confound and reduce a person to an almost nihilistic belief in the world. If a man could never reach the finish line, what motivation would there be to move towards it?

Similar to that, if a man was taught that everything he believed could be bottled up to merely an "opinion" not at all unlike anyone else's "opinion", would he be able to logically consider his beliefs worth following anymore? Once it has been established, via relativism, that any opinion is the equal of any other opinion, it is a quick walk to hedonism and a lengthy, but inevitable, journey on down the pipe to practical nihilism.
A witty saying proves nothing - Voltaire
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Reply 53 of 57 (Originally posted on: 08-21-10 02:11:32 PM)
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That's one of the more succinct arguments I've seen on the topic, it descends a bit into slippery slope territory toward the end, but it's not entirely unwarranted.

It's not my intention to assert that relativism is a necessary and sufficient condition for addressing issues in reality. I recognize that most of relativism falls into the category of "thought exercises" and largely falls short of practicality. I'm merely saying that relativism is a necessary condition in addressing issues in reality. In being able to recognize the shortfalls in our most closely held ideas by way of addressing them through relativism, we gain the ability to dislodge ourselves from prejudices and structures that are contingent upon our physiological, psychological, sociological, cultural evolution, just to name a few. In examining those prejudices and structures, we may find that many of them aid us and are in tune with our evolution, but similarly, we may discover that many of them are hold outs from past prejudices, many which may no longer serve us (or may be detrimental to our continued evolution or progression). This kind of relativistic approach broadens the scope of our thinking and can only be beneficial to us provided we balance it properly with practical applications and reality. I don't claim to know how to strike that balance.

I'm not familiar with the White Horse argument, but I'll look in to it when I get back later this evening.


(edited for clarity)
This reply was last edited on 08-22-10 08:16:56 AM by Air Bud.
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Reply 54 of 57 (Originally posted on: 07-13-11 10:01:16 PM)
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The correct answer to the OP would be something like 'residue moral prejudices' as long as we stress that morality=prejudice in every instance. Otherwise, what stops an atheist doing everything they want, acting in a way totally immoral according to every moral standard (perhaps not at the same time)? Fate, destiny, necessity. Most of our actions are driven inexorably down a road preselected for us before birth. If you disagree, and you may, you are not wrong either. I don't think everyone should accept this ontological and moral situation if they are not capable of understanding its potentialities for increasing their feeling of power over life.
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Reply 55 of 57 (Originally posted on: 07-14-11 03:03:55 AM)
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People are more or less a product of their upbringing. They either try to maintain it or purposefully reject it.
A witty saying proves nothing - Voltaire
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Reply 56 of 57 (Originally posted on: 08-10-11 11:29:37 AM)
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Viss, so what do you think of European societies where the population is on a whole a lot less religious? People seem to live happy, productive lives because of community impact. It seems that long ago, religion was necessary for control, and making sure people held certain virtues. However, with those values being instilled in secular societies and communities, people no longer need religion as the base.

It's clear that since God is not real, that humans have developed this sense of morality on their own. The average Joe knows that if he does some stupid shit, treats people badly to a certain extent, that he's likely to face some sort of repercussions. For anyone who lacks morality, that seems sufficient to "control" society.

"Would you ever make it to the end? No, you wouldn't. This line of thought, though purely logical, serves no real purpose but to confound and reduce a person to an almost nihilistic belief in the world. If a man could never reach the finish line, what motivation would there be to move towards it?"

It's an interesting question, basically looking at life with no real purpose. Honestly, the way I've looked at it in the end, is that I have this one life, and it does have an ending. Thankfully, it does. We aren't just taking half distance steps towards the finish line. It may seem childish, but the Golden Compass series really put nicely that we all have a finite time.

"People are more or less a product of their upbringing. They either try to maintain it or purposefully reject it. "

It's interesting that you say that now, because it seems to go against your earlier argument for religion as a need for control. Religion didn't impact my childhood as much as it was the examples my parents set. A hard working Dad, a caring Mother and Grandmother. It's why I care for people, it's why I have an altruistic side. Maybe some people need a reason, but I see more and more people that do not.
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Reply 57 of 57 (Originally posted on: 11-08-13 04:01:02 PM)
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God has a house in my heart.
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